[jack bauer]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on 14 April 2017 - 09:21 PM, said:

We've got to get 22 hammer us. Most of that lot won't even be here next season. We won't go down, if anyone wants a bet, what odds are on offer?

We are fkin useless at the minute but the talk of going through the trap door, is a little premature at this stage, but it does make for pointless, sensationalist reading I suppose, until we know what squad we have.

I'm not even convinced we know for sure we have a manager for next year yet.

the last line is intriguing and gives me some hope, is this based on the wigan scenario or something else?

[Spireiteboy155]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on 14 April 2017 - 09:21 PM, said:

I'm not even convinced we know for sure we have a manager for next year yet.

I know for sure that we have one that doesn't have a clue what he is doing...

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

jack bauer, on 14 April 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

the last line is intriguing and gives me some hope, is this based on the wigan scenario or something else?

Wigan and the fact he's been clueless to date

[jack bauer]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on 14 April 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

Wigan and the fact he's been clueless to date

if wigan come calling, i'd be pleasantly surprised but would advise AC to just let them have him. it hasn't worked and I just don't see it turning around under him.

[Paul stanley]

I was at the game today and it was horendus the conference team i follow, gateshead would probablt have beat us. Talking to a clearly deluded bloke afterwards who said chesterfield are too big to drop into the conference so i said wrexham, tramere, luton and bristol rovers etc weren't to which he replied chesterfield are bigger than them. So wrong! The conference is a frustrateing league. Gatesheads been hoying money at promotion for years and still aint succeeded and very rarely relegated teams come straight back up.

[Walton Spireite]

Paul stanley, on 15 April 2017 - 06:39 AM, said:

I was at the game today and it was horendus the conference team i follow, gateshead would probablt have beat us. Talking to a clearly deluded bloke afterwards who said chesterfield are too big to drop into the conference so i said wrexham, tramere, luton and bristol rovers etc weren't to which he replied chesterfield are bigger than them. So wrong! The conference is a frustrateing league. Gatesheads been hoying money at promotion for years and still aint succeeded and very rarely relegated teams come straight back up.

A lot of deluded peopleLuton and Rovers are miles bigger than us. Town are heading for the conference been saying it for a long time. The trend is there.

[metallilad]

Paul stanley, on 15 April 2017 - 06:39 AM, said:

I was at the game today and it was horendus the conference team i follow, gateshead would probablt have beat us. Talking to a clearly deluded bloke afterwards who said chesterfield are too big to drop into the conference so i said wrexham, tramere, luton and bristol rovers etc weren't to which he replied chesterfield are bigger than them. So wrong! The conference is a frustrateing league. Gatesheads been hoying money at promotion for years and still aint succeeded and very rarely relegated teams come straight back up.

You only have to look at Leyton Orient to back up your point aswell.
Whilst you can never say that a club is too big to drop down (Sheffield Wed, Leeds, Notts Forest all were in league one and all are Premiership sized clubs) the biggest plus point we've got is that we don't have a squad full of underachieving overpaid players that we are stuck with for another season. GC starts the full rebuild of our club after that full time whistle against Sheffield Utd with players that he wants which puts us on a better footing than most clubs who are relegated, now, I realise that most people on here or Infact around the ground don't have the faith in him to do this but he is working with DW tools and I know that people can highlight the fact that his loaners haven't been upto much but do we know for sure that those signings were all his? After all if a manager signs a player on loan and doesn't play him then why would he bring them in? As far as I can see the only one who really gets a look in is the kid from Preston which would've been the area that GC would've been watching.

I just think that for as much as it's frustrating that we're going down, we shouldn't go hitting the panic button until we can clearly see what job GC has done for us next season. After all you don't win championships by being a bad manager.

[Tha Knows...]

They are obviously Caldwell signings. He is the manager and has confirmed on radio they were his signings. You seem to be in denial on this subject. The kid from pne who gets a bit of a look in is garbage mate. Garbage. If we sign him permanently in the summer you will get a clear message of what next season will be like.

This post has been edited by Spire-Power: 15 April 2017 - 08:07 AM

[60s 70s Spireite]

metallilad, on 15 April 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

You only have to look at Leyton Orient to back up your point aswell.
Whilst you can never say that a club is too big to drop down (Sheffield Wed, Leeds, Notts Forest all were in league one and all are Premiership sized clubs) the biggest plus point we've got is that we don't have a squad full of underachieving overpaid players that we are stuck with for another season. GC starts the full rebuild of our club after that full time whistle against Sheffield Utd with players that he wants which puts us on a better footing than most clubs who are relegated, now, I realise that most people on here or Infact around the ground don't have the faith in him to do this but he is working with DW tools and I know that people can highlight the fact that his loaners haven't been upto much but do we know for sure that those signings were all his? After all if a manager signs a player on loan and doesn't play him then why would he bring them in? As far as I can see the only one who really gets a look in is the kid from Preston which would've been the area that GC would've been watching.

I just think that for as much as it's frustrating that we're going down, we shouldn't go hitting the panic button until we can clearly see what job GC has done for us next season. After all you don't win championships by being a bad manager.

Like Wilson he is working with Saunders, Turners and Carsons tools, like Wilson he has been allowed no budgetary slack, and has been left with a good part of his wage bill going on wasters such as Ebanks Blake and Martinez. Like I have said before, he has proved (like every recent Celtic manager) he can work with a budget that far exceeds anything in the same division, but to me, he is showing, with his time at Wigan in the league above, and here, he has little clue how to set up a side with lesser skilled players.

[metallilad]

60s 70s Spireite, on 15 April 2017 - 08:21 AM, said:

Like Wilson he is working with Saunders, Turners and Carsons tools, like Wilson he has been allowed no budgetary slack, and has been left with a good part of his wage bill going on wasters such as Ebanks Blake and Martinez. Like I have said before, he has proved (like every recent Celtic manager) he can work with a budget that far exceeds anything in the same division, but to me, he is showing, with his time at Wigan in the league above, and here, he has little clue how to set up a side with lesser skilled players.

And like I said before. Budgets help out but you don't win championships without knowing a thing or two.
His remit last season was to get Wigan back into the championship, he did this by courtesy of being the best team in league one. This season his remit would've been to keep Wigan in the championship and was unfairly (not my words but the words of the press) sacked before he had any real chance to prove himself. And now we are wanting him out before we give him a crack at rebuilding our club.
The problem with modern day football is that the sport and stability has taken a backseat to money. The previous managers, people in charge have got to play a big part in this mess but we're all quite happy to hang the present manager out to dry for their shortcomings.
Yes. He's made decisions that leave us wondering wtf, but Cookie made decisions that people didn't agree with and yet look what happened there?

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

metallilad, on 15 April 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

Yes. He's made decisions that leave us wondering wtf, but Cookie made decisions that people didn't agree with and yet look what happened there?

Cook instilled a purpose and pattern almost from day one, falling only one win short of the play offs despite inheriting a relatively ordinary squad.

Caldwell's done the opposite.

[dim view]

MDCCCLXVI, on 15 April 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

Cook instilled a purpose and pattern almost from day one, falling only one win short of the play offs despite inheriting a relatively ordinary squad.

Caldwell's done the opposite.

I am reserving judgement. Carson has a 100% record of failure on everybody he has recruited at CFC and it is easy to apply that predictive pattern to GC before he deserves it. During GC's tenure, Carson has managed to f**k up the Academy, the pies, the sacking of Turner, the recruitment of his successor, the credit rating, programme pricing, season ticket pricing, an investigation into serious allegations that he has known about for months, fans forums, and much more. It doesn't seem fair to me to be criticising anybody under Carson at the club until he himself gets it in the teeth.
On balance I think there is a good chance GC can stop the rot if he gets the promised top six budget. One thing in his favour.....he certainly has the temperament to tell Allen where to stick it if he doesn't keep his promise. Let's start as we mean to go on and have the clear out on Tuesday.

[Doughnut]

Walton Spireite, on 15 April 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

A lot of deluded peopleLuton and Rovers are miles bigger than us. Town are heading for the conference been saying it for a long time. The trend is there.

Yes, but no doubt you were claiming this the season we won promotion to Div 1. You see, if you post C**p all the time to wind folk up, when you do make a sensible post, it is assumed you're being your usual provocative self, posting for 'effect' as opposed to making a sensible suggestion.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dim view, on 15 April 2017 - 12:53 PM, said:

I am reserving judgement. Carson has a 100% record of failure on everybody he has recruited at CFC and it is easy to apply that predictive pattern to GC before he deserves it. During GC's tenure, Carson has managed to f**k up the Academy, the pies, the sacking of Turner, the recruitment of his successor, the credit rating, programme pricing, season ticket pricing, an investigation into serious allegations that he has known about for months, fans forums, and much more. It doesn't seem fair to me to be criticising anybody under Carson at the club until he himself gets it in the teeth.
On balance I think there is a good chance GC can stop the rot if he gets the promised top six budget. One thing in his favour.....he certainly has the temperament to tell Allen where to stick it if he doesn't keep his promise. Let's start as we mean to go on and have the clear out on Tuesday.

Can't argue with any of that, Dave; but you forgot to mention the AGM and 'FBT's' supposed takeover of CFCFDS, too.

And the Academy's not screwed yet - though from what I'm hearing Steve 'I'll show you my badges' Coe is trying to stick his nose where it should never belong.

He's apparently been told as much by someone possessing authority in such circles, anorl.

Not sure about the top six budget, either.

Allen said it'll be 'commensurate with the top half dozen clubs in League Two' - yet who's told him that: Nostradamus? Old Mother Shipton? His tea leaves (and I mean those in the bottom of his cup, by the way...)?

Well here's some ball rubbing of my own (crystal ball! I say crystal ball ya perverts!): Caldwell'll be fired after an embarrassing defeat to our little neighbours around six or seven games into a winless season.

What sorta state the squad'll be in by then is anyone's guess, mind...

[The Black Triangle]

metallilad, on 15 April 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

You only have to look at Leyton Orient to back up your point aswell.
Whilst you can never say that a club is too big to drop down (Sheffield Wed, Leeds, Notts Forest all were in league one and all are Premiership sized clubs) the biggest plus point we've got is that we don't have a squad full of underachieving overpaid players that we are stuck with for another season. GC starts the full rebuild of our club after that full time whistle against Sheffield Utd with players that he wants which puts us on a better footing than most clubs who are relegated, now, I realise that most people on here or Infact around the ground don't have the faith in him to do this but he is working with DW tools and I know that people can highlight the fact that his loaners haven't been upto much but do we know for sure that those signings were all his? After all if a manager signs a player on loan and doesn't play him then why would he bring them in? As far as I can see the only one who really gets a look in is the kid from Preston which would've been the area that GC would've been watching.

I just think that for as much as it's frustrating that we're going down, we shouldn't go hitting the panic button until we can clearly see what job GC has done for us next season. After all you don't win championships by being a bad manager.

Working with Danny Wilsons tools : would Wilson, with the return to fitness of McGinn Jones and Martinez have won just 2 games out of 16?
Wilson won more points per game, with players like Liam Graham in the side.
Wilsons tools? Caldwell signed 6 players in the transfer window. He could have played them all as 2 were signed and 4 were loans. That's over half of the starting 11 and yet we see how many make the pitch? It does not bode well.
His style of play isn't suitable for lower league players. They are not good enough. Yet he persists with it. It's easy to counter. Press high up the pitch, and force us to go long. Get the midfielders into the channels, press with full backs onto our midfield wide men and press us into making mistakes, which our players will do as they are lacking the skills and quality to play his "Man City" out from the back game.
Wilson played 3 at the back a few times, or maybe a 5 depending on how you view it. But he had players in almost recognisable positions. Donahue Hird Evatt Anderson Liddle/Graham. Not grimshaw, not Mitchell. because they are not defensive players.
The most damning thing about caldwells tactical noise is this - using the player who is most likely to give the ball away, in a defensive midfield role. No way on gods earth is Gardner a defensive midfielder. Not while he has a whole in his backside will he be a defensive midfielder.

[Westbars Spireite]

Unless Caldwell signs better players and plays them in a sensible formation then anything is possible next season.

[SpireiteFitzy]

Westbars Spireite, on 15 April 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

Unless Caldwell signs better players and plays them in a sensible formation then anything is possible next season.

What's worrying is his stubbornness to adapt. He's shown this season he's is not willing whatsoever to deviate from what he considers his way of playing football. If his formation gets found out and countered early next season I worry he's not going to be flexible enough to come up with the solutions, much like this season.

Sheridan, Clarke, and Hurst all seem to have found ways to deal with poor squads this year and turn them round.

[Guest_freelander2_*]

dim view, on 15 April 2017 - 12:53 PM, said:

I am reserving judgement. Carson has a 100% record of failure on everybody he has recruited at CFC and it is easy to apply that predictive pattern to GC before he deserves it. During GC's tenure, Carson has managed to f**k up the Academy, the pies, the sacking of Turner, the recruitment of his successor, the credit rating, programme pricing, season ticket pricing, an investigation into serious allegations that he has known about for months, fans forums, and much more. It doesn't seem fair to me to be criticising anybody under Carson at the club until he himself gets it in the teeth.
On balance I think there is a good chance GC can stop the rot if he gets the promised top six budget. One thing in his favour.....he certainly has the temperament to tell Allen where to stick it if he doesn't keep his promise. Let's start as we mean to go on and have the clear out on Tuesday.

Some good points, Dave.

Yesterday, a poster on another thread suggested the current position that the club finds itself in has been well managed because no one could have been so incompetent to have messed up on so many subjects.

It certainly gets you thinking.

[dim view]

SpireiteFitzy, on 15 April 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

What's worrying is his stubbornness to adapt. He's shown this season he's is not willing whatsoever to deviate from what he considers his way of playing football. If his formation gets found out and countered early next season I worry he's not going to be flexible enough to come up with the solutions, much like this season.

Sheridan, Clarke, and Hurst all seem to have found ways to deal with poor squads this year and turn them round.

I'd like to bet that they have also been backed by their respective Boards in terms of money being risked.

[jack bauer]

SpireiteFitzy, on 15 April 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

What's worrying is his stubbornness to adapt. He's shown this season he's is not willing whatsoever to deviate from what he considers his way of playing football. If his formation gets found out and countered early next season I worry he's not going to be flexible enough to come up with the solutions, much like this season.

Sheridan, Clarke, and Hurst all seem to have found ways to deal with poor squads this year and turn them round.

yesterday phil brown showed Caldwell up completely, brown knew exactly how to play us and it worked and at no point did Caldwell think to himself I need to change this or we'll get battered and oh what happened, not for the first time either, next season could be more of the same.