[Stockholm Spireite]

Search and Destroy, on 10 April 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

Deff keep Dan Baller, him and Rowlers and we'll tear up L2 again.

Dan Baller - is that what you call him? More like Dan Ballsup

[dtp]

hewittfan, on 10 April 2017 - 04:47 PM, said:

With the reduced budget that we're facing, every cost has to be justified. no matter how small. I think that the your "young ones" should only be kept if they're going to be a serious contender for the match day squad come August.

I think with the three announced today we're up to 14 under contract for next year now, so how many spots does that leave, six or seven, maybe eight? The following out of contract players (excluding loanees) were in the squad on Saturday, so in effect, these are the current places that are up for grabs:

Simons, Martinez, Jones, SEB, Gardner, Beesley, Maguire, Stuckmann

Plus the injured Evatt of course.

You're probably not wrong in terms of the number under contract at the end of this season - but, one or two of them might just be sold before next season kicks off.

It might be me but I have a little confidence in our youth, particularly those that have already been blooded, more confidence, in fact, than the type of loanees GC brought in during January. DW brought Mitchell in, for instance, from Chelsea but in reality has he really had a bigger impact than our own?

Including the five 17 year olds I would suggest we need a squad of circa 24 players so if a decent percentage of these are relatively cheap youngsters whose attributes are already known there is little risk in their respect and the rest of the budget should be used in bringing in some experience.

For instance, the basis of a team could be made up as follows -

Lee
Hird, Evatt (on reduced terms), Maguire
McGinn, Nolan, Dimiao, Donohue
Rowley, Evans, Dennis

This team includes 2 players out of contract at the end of this season and one of those is a youngster. Not sure, but possibly, the only other 2 youngsters left OOC are Beesley and Simons both of whom were on the bench in the last match and the latter GC was pleased with when brought on. So if these 2 were signed up again I believe we would then have 17 or 18 contracted players and have enough left in the budget to bring in 6 or 7 decent league 2, or 1, players to bring us up to circa 24.

Any experienced signings made should be brought in with a view to replacing, and improving on, their counterpart in said team and, thus, putting that player onto the bench. I have already suggested we need a big ugly CB, a big ugly CM, and a big ugly CF in other posts and I stand by that suggestion. Somebody that can take a long throw and somebody that can score from free-kicks would be a bonus.

[whittman]

dtp, on 10 April 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

On the basis that only one of the six GC signings has made any sort of contribution there will be budget savings when the other five reach the end of their deals.

Add to this inJanuary, we reduced the budget quite significantly by moving Liddle, O'Neil and O'Shea on.

Bigger earners like SEB, Evatt, Jones, Martinez etc contracts are up and I think only Evatt will be offered anything and that will be on reduced terms.

Of the rest, most are youngsters and not on big money. I would seriously consider keeping most of the OOC young ones as most have now been blooded in the first team and not let us down. More importantly, we need a squad and these young ones will not cost the earth.

Any money left should be spent on introducing some height and brawn into defence, midfield and attack.

I heard a rumour that El Fitori has gone to play the leading role in the next Invisible Man film because no one has seen him around lately

[hewittfan]

dtp, on 10 April 2017 - 06:02 PM, said:

You're probably not wrong in terms of the number under contract at the end of this season - but, one or two of them might just be sold before next season kicks off.

It might be me but I have a little confidence in our youth, particularly those that have already been blooded, more confidence, in fact, than the type of loanees GC brought in during January. DW brought Mitchell in, for instance, from Chelsea but in reality has he really had a bigger impact than our own?

Including the five 17 year olds I would suggest we need a squad of circa 24 players so if a decent percentage of these are relatively cheap youngsters whose attributes are already known there is little risk in their respect and the rest of the budget should be used in bringing in some experience.

For instance, the basis of a team could be made up as follows -

Lee
Hird, Evatt (on reduced terms), Maguire
McGinn, Nolan, Dimiao, Donohue
Rowley, Evans, Dennis

This team includes 2 players out of contract at the end of this season and one of those is a youngster. Not sure, but possibly, the only other 2 youngsters left OOC are Beesley and Simons both of whom were on the bench in the last match and the latter GC was pleased with when brought on. So if these 2 were signed up again I believe we would then have 17 or 18 contracted players and have enough left in the budget to bring in 6 or 7 decent league 2, or 1, players to bring us up to circa 24.

Any experienced signings made should be brought in with a view to replacing, and improving on, their counterpart in said team and, thus, putting that player onto the bench. I have already suggested we need a big ugly CB, a big ugly CM, and a big ugly CF in other posts and I stand by that suggestion. Somebody that can take a long throw and somebody that can score from free-kicks would be a bonus.

They might, but how many times have we seen players transfer listed only to find no takers, at least for the terms on offer.

I think a 24 man squad would be a stretch with the budget that's been mentioned for next year.

[azul]

MDCCCLXVI, on 10 April 2017 - 05:41 PM, said:

Any discussion regarding those staying or going must be placed in the context of who'll replace them.

Caldwell's January recruitment was embarrassing, with only Stuckman looking worthwhile whilst the rest barely make the bench in a relegation doomed squad. Meanwhile rumours of targets snubbing him because of previous relationships persist.

Then there're huge question marks over Branston's record at Notts - and I'm already hearing disturbing rumours of their players now being linked with us!

I just hope they're not allowed to 'do a Saunders' between 'em - leaving whoever has to tidy-up their mess with less than nothing to work with.

Yeah, I've heard that rumour too!

Can't think where?

[dtp]

hewittfan, on 10 April 2017 - 07:32 PM, said:

I think a 24 man squad would be a stretch with the budget that's been mentioned for next year.

5 of this 24 man suggestion are currently 17 years old and can't be costing much.

The likes of Dimaio, Donohue, Maguire, Simons, Beesley - another 5 will not be on extortionate wages.

Similarly, I struggle to believe Nolan, Dennis and Mitchell are big earners.

That leaves Lee, Hird, McGinn, Evans and possibly Evatt as the 5 on the most. Even then I believe there is a 20% salary reduction relegation clause in the contracts of those still under contract.

So, another 6 players required. I don't think Stuckman will cost a fortune, after all, he was at Falkirk before, wasn't he?

Salaries saved from SEB, Liddle, O'Shea, O'Neil, Martinez, Jones, Gardner, Raglan, Allinson, Humphries, plus reduced wages for Evatt should provide enough for 5 more decent league 2 wages and provide a budget reduction.

[firedodger]

brianclose, on 10 April 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

I'd keep Simons he's an exciting player just needs polishing up a bit.

Would only keep Gardner on vastly reduced terms but I expect he'd be one of the better wingers/midfielders in L2.

Beesley can go for me.

Stuckers has done enough to claim the No 1 jersey at the start of next season regardless of Tommy returning to full fitness. Sad to say but I feel more secure with Stuckers in the net that I often did when Tommy was playing.

If you think simons is exciting I'll give you a bell next time I've got some paint drying.
He's rotten

[Tyrion]

I can't believe people want to keep Simons!! Awful player

[hewittfan]

dtp, on 10 April 2017 - 07:59 PM, said:

5 of this 24 man suggestion are currently 17 years old and can't be costing much.

The likes of Dimaio, Donohue, Maguire, Simons, Beesley - another 5 will not be on extortionate wages.

Similarly, I struggle to believe Nolan, Dennis and Mitchell are big earners.

That leaves Lee, Hird, McGinn, Evans and possibly Evatt as the 5 on the most. Even then I believe there is a 20% salary reduction relegation clause in the contracts of those still under contract.

So, another 6 players required. I don't think Stuckman will cost a fortune, after all, he was at Falkirk before, wasn't he?

Salaries saved from SEB, Liddle, O'Shea, O'Neil, Martinez, Jones, Gardner, Raglan, Allinson, Humphries, plus reduced wages for Evatt should provide enough for 5 more decent league 2 wages and provide a budget reduction.

They may individually not cost much/not be on extortionate wages/not be big earners, but when you combine the cost of the 13 you have falling under those headings, that adds up to a material chunk of the significantly reduced budget.

[dim view]

dtp, on 10 April 2017 - 07:59 PM, said:

5 of this 24 man suggestion are currently 17 years old and can't be costing much.

The likes of Dimaio, Donohue, Maguire, Simons, Beesley - another 5 will not be on extortionate wages.

Similarly, I struggle to believe Nolan, Dennis and Mitchell are big earners.

That leaves Lee, Hird, McGinn, Evans and possibly Evatt as the 5 on the most. Even then I believe there is a 20% salary reduction relegation clause in the contracts of those still under contract.

So, another 6 players required. I don't think Stuckman will cost a fortune, after all, he was at Falkirk before, wasn't he?

Salaries saved from SEB, Liddle, O'Shea, O'Neil, Martinez, Jones, Gardner, Raglan, Allinson, Humphries, plus reduced wages for Evatt should provide enough for 5 more decent league 2 wages and provide a budget reduction.

He's got to change the essential dynamics of the team. We are miles off with overall power, strength, height parameters.

[Goku]

Tyrion, on 10 April 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

I can't believe people want to keep Simons!! Awful player

baffling. he's not been bothered for the past year

[azul]

Goku, on 10 April 2017 - 10:47 PM, said:

baffling. he's not been bothered for the past year

It beggars belief that someone like him with his professional career hanging in the balance looks so disinterested.

[Crack]

Mid quality L2 players are what we need as anybody who gets any better will be sold on to line greedy boys back pocket.
No hope for the future at the club until it's completely free of anything whatsoever to do with D A.
With no hope of new owners due to greedy boys price tag there is only one direction he is taking the club.

[SpireiteFitzy]

We need strength and experience. It's all very well saying we'll take all the youth down with us but league 2 is a minefield of experienced pros and cloggers who will bully you out of games and the younger players won't have experienced that before. If we go too much youth we will be in trouble.

[dtp]

hewittfan, on 10 April 2017 - 09:50 PM, said:

They may individually not cost much/not be on extortionate wages/not be big earners, but when you combine the cost of the 13 you have falling under those headings, that adds up to a material chunk of the significantly reduced budget.

Ok. Let's try doing the sums.

So, what is the budget we are working to?

[JonB]

Crack, on 11 April 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

Mid quality L2 players are what we need as anybody who gets any better will be sold on to line greedy boys back pocket.
No hope for the future at the club until it's completely free of anything whatsoever to do with D A.
With no hope of new owners due to greedy boys price tag there is only one direction he is taking the club.

But surely flogging some players for decent money will help shift the debt quicker and get us back on an even keel quicker?

[brianclose]

Crack, on 11 April 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

Mid quality L2 players are what we need as anybody who gets any better will be sold on to line greedy boys back pocket.
No hope for the future at the club until it's completely free of anything whatsoever to do with D A.
With no hope of new owners due to greedy boys price tag there is only one direction he is taking the club.

Surely Simons fits this criteria then, with room to improve?

It was only a year or so ago he was slaying Shrewsbury in L1.

[danblue]

Crack, on 11 April 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

Mid quality L2 players are what we need as anybody who gets any better will be sold on to line greedy boys back pocket.
No hope for the future at the club until it's completely free of anything whatsoever to do with D A.
With no hope of new owners due to greedy boys price tag there is only one direction he is taking the club.

From GC interview, he says youth will get a chance (basically the poler opposite of Dean Saunders). He sounded committed to doing this but also acknowledged that by doing this, they put themselves in the shop window. Now, I'm no mind reader, but I got the impression that GC will want to keep the talented for obvious reasons. I think he will be in a position where his word will have some meaning (unlike the Wilson / Turner relationship).
Yes we are a selling club, we have to be at the moment. But I feel with GC in charge, with the final say of who comes in off Branston's list of available players, I think our club can take massive strides forward.
I'm talking promotion, a hot bed where young players can thrive (either for a contract or profit), good football and a sellable club. The signs have already started to show, at least,of a footballing turnaround.

This post has been edited by danblue: 11 April 2017 - 01:19 PM

[Goku]

Haha wow it doesn't take much to get you onside eh

[Sammy Spireite]

danblue, on 11 April 2017 - 01:18 PM, said:

But I feel with GC in charge, with the final say of who comes in off Branston's list of available players, I think our club can take massive strides forward.

Given his 6 signings so far, which ones give you such a positive feeling?

The 5 youngsters currently no where near our first team squad or the 36 year old keeper?