[RikShaw]

whittman, on 17 October 2016 - 03:12 PM, said:

The off the field rumours at the time meant that the buzz for the playoffs was not quite as it should have been hence the lower than hoped for crowd

Also being live on Sky would have meant good business for most of the pubs in the area I would have thought

Fair comment mate, but the numbers who actually turn up are and have always been a concern to our Chairman.

Personally speaking, the rapid decline of our club since Spring 2015 is compounding low gates as I believe a lot of fans have 'lost faith' which is an absolute tragedy bearing in mind the goodwill was that apparent in both the original Saltergate faithful and new generation of fans attracted to the Proact.

For me, watching my club last season getting spanked 0-3, 0-4 at home on many occasions and this season already we've been spanked 0-3 in an appalling game against Millwall, I'm finding it increasing difficult to motivate myself to go to games and if this continues it will be very difficult to justify spending another £400+ on a S/T.

[Tha Knows...]

whittman, on 17 October 2016 - 03:12 PM, said:

The off the field rumours at the time meant that the buzz for the playoffs was not quite as it should have been hence the lower than hoped for crowd

Also being live on Sky would have meant good business for most of the pubs in the area I would have thought

The numbers watching that game on Sky from home would also have been significant, and I'm assuming the next day was a school day which if correct would have been a factor.
We averaged 7k despite only entering the play off zone close to the season's end. It was only when we won at Bradford in game 39 that I began to wonder if we might end the season in the play offs, so DA could not reasonably draw the conclusions that Maverick refers to. That season was viewed as consolidation in L1 but we did better than expected. Instead of trying to develop the squad a bit more, to make a serious effort to get us promoted and increase the growing fanbase, he set on a course to dismantle it. And we can see the result of that. If he had been prepared to push on, £5/6m was waiting at the next level.

This post has been edited by Spire-Power: 17 October 2016 - 03:43 PM

[RikShaw]

Spire-Power, on 17 October 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

The numbers watching that game on Sky from home would also have been significant, and I'm assuming the next day was a school day which if correct would have been a factor.
We averaged 7k despite only entering the play off zone close to the season's end. It was only when we won at Bradford in game 39 that I began to wonder if we might end the season in the play offs, so DA could not reasonably draw the conclusions that Maverick refers to. That season was viewed as consolidation in L1 but we did better than expected. Instead of trying to develop the squad a bit more, to make a serious effort to get us promoted and increase the growing fanbase, he set on a course to dismantle it. And we can see the result of that. If he had been prepared to push on, £5/6m was waiting at the next level.

Hi mate, clearly something changed in 2015 because as you correctly say DA said that first season was one of consolidation and we beat all expectations, so the question is what triggered the change from a'season of consolidation' to one of dismantlement? I don't believe DA cut the budget in 2015/16 as the wages spent on SEB/Novak/Angel/O'Neill will I'm sure have exceeded those of the Clucas/Darikwa/Roberts/Ryan (& Morsy)....

With hindsight DA made a catastrophic mistake in appointing Saunders and sanctioning his signings... maybe, just maybe things would have been a lot different now, if Saunders and his signings had worked out, we might have done a 'Burton', however, looking at where we are now, its looking more like we'll be 'going for a Burton'!

[Guest_freelander2_*]

The Gimp, on 17 October 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

The turning point was way before that. Cast your mind back to the pre season following our title win. Look at the players Cook signed, such as Onovwigun. Look at the pre season games, and Cook not having a full bench. Then we sold Cooper and bought Clucas. Bocce signed on such a low wage he had to work in a pie factory.
Fast forward 4 months, we had the club hawking Doyle and took the first genuine offer on the table. Then signed the £15k superstar from Stevenage(I can't even remember his name, such was his impact on the side).
No, DA had pulled the plug on his ambitions way before we Played Preston. DA only ambition now is to get as much of his money back as possible. I expect, following the release of Angel and Ebanks-Blake, the budget to be cut still further if Wilson keeps us up. Something like SEB wages to the manager, and Angels wages to the debt situation.

Cook's post match interview following the pre-season friendly against Lincoln on 19/07/14 is a good indicator as to when the backing was put on-hold. It happened to coincide with the bombshell that the club had lost £1M for the year ending 30/06/14.

Liam Cooper was sold a few weeks later.

[whittman]

freelander2, on 17 October 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

Cook's post match interview following the pre-season friendly against Lincoln on 19/07/14 is a good indicator as to when the backing was put on-hold. It happened to coincide with the bombshell that the club had lost £1M for the year ending 30/06/14.

Liam Cooper was sold a few weeks later.

If I remember rightly Cook cut that interview short with something along the lines of "I am going before I say
something I might regret" and I genuinely thought he was about to resign at that time given the tone of his voice

[ELTON 2020]

The Gimp, on 17 October 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

The turning point was way before that. Cast your mind back to the pre season following our title win. Look at the players Cook signed, such as Onovwigun. Look at the pre season games, and Cook not having a full bench. Then we sold Cooper and bought Clucas. Bocce signed on such a low wage he had to work in a pie factory.
Fast forward 4 months, we had the club hawking Doyle and took the first genuine offer on the table. Then signed the £15k superstar from Stevenage(I can't even remember his name, such was his impact on the side).
No, DA had pulled the plug on his ambitions way before we Played Preston. DA only ambition now is to get as much of his money back as possible. I expect, following the release of Angel and Ebanks-Blake, the budget to be cut still further if Wilson keeps us up. Something like SEB wages to the manager, and Angels wages to the debt situation.

How common in League 1 and 2 are chairman who want their money back??

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

I believe the huge and unexpected loss despite one of our most successful ever seasons was the real game changer.

Let's not forget that we pretty much sold out the week before the Preston play off game against Bristol City, too.

Just as we've done on a number of occasions since moving onto Sheff Road.

Nah, the good folk of North Derbyshire did their bit and those responsible for the debt rocketing skywards sit somewhat closer to the Chairman.

The Gimp, on 17 October 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

The turning point was way before that. Cast your mind back to the pre season following our title win. Look at the players Cook signed, such as Onovwigun. Look at the pre season games, and Cook not having a full bench. Then we sold Cooper and bought Clucas. Bocce signed on such a low wage he had to work in a pie factory.
Fast forward 4 months, we had the club hawking Doyle and took the first genuine offer on the table. Then signed the £15k superstar from Stevenage(I can't even remember his name, such was his impact on the side).
No, DA had pulled the plug on his ambitions way before we Played Preston. DA only ambition now is to get as much of his money back as possible. I expect, following the release of Angel and Ebanks-Blake, the budget to be cut still further if Wilson keeps us up. Something like SEB wages to the manager, and Angels wages to the debt situation.

Fully agree.

[newbold ken]

The Gimp, on 17 October 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

The turning point was way before that. Cast your mind back to the pre season following our title win. Look at the players Cook signed, such as Onovwigun. Look at the pre season games, and Cook not having a full bench. Then we sold Cooper and bought Clucas. Bocce signed on such a low wage he had to work in a pie factory.
Fast forward 4 months, we had the club hawking Doyle and took the first genuine offer on the table. Then signed the £15k superstar from Stevenage(I can't even remember his name, such was his impact on the side).
No, DA had pulled the plug on his ambitions way before we Played Preston. DA only ambition now is to get as much of his money back as possible. I expect, following the release of Angel and Ebanks-Blake, the budget to be cut still further if Wilson keeps us up. Something like SEB wages to the manager, and Angels wages to the debt situation.

Yep the turning point was definitely that summer of 2014 - we had been chasing higdon all summer (ok he didn't turn out to be that good ) then the club suddenly said we weren't going to sign him , in fact we couldn't afford to sign anyone . Cue cooks dispirited interview at Lincoln , followed by the sale of cooper then Doyle , what ambitious promotion chasing club sells their top scorer in January. No the Preston attendance was merely an handy excuse for Allen to continue his fire sale

[whittman]

Also the supposdly agreed purchase and sudden u turn of loanee Johnson from Aston Villa imo was a big factor in Cook realising his ambitions were not going to be realised here

[newbold ken]

Yeah you're spot on there mate - cook even tried not playing him to keep him under the radar to no avail .

[Humpalumpa]

newbold ken, on 17 October 2016 - 05:02 PM, said:

what ambitious promotion chasing club sells their top scorer in January. No the Preston attendance was merely an handy excuse for Allen to continue his fire sale

No ambition CFC

[60s 70s Spireite]

newbold ken, on 17 October 2016 - 06:30 PM, said:

Yeah you're spot on there mate - cook even tried not playing him to keep him under the radar to no avail .

I think more likely Cook had a strop and didn't play him for spite. I am sure scouts up and down the country knew all about Johnson's abilities. There was no hiding those.

[The Black Triangle]

newbold ken, on 17 October 2016 - 05:02 PM, said:

Yep the turning point was definitely that summer of 2014 - we had been chasing higdon all summer (ok he didn't turn out to be that good ) then the club suddenly said we weren't going to sign him , in fact we couldn't afford to sign anyone . Cue cooks dispirited interview at Lincoln , followed by the sale of cooper then Doyle , what ambitious promotion chasing club sells their top scorer in January. No the Preston attendance was merely an handy excuse for Allen to continue his fire sale

Ah yes, Michael Higdon. I forgot about that one. An indicator of the club and its ambition if ever there was one. Was that previous promotion season Turners first full year at CFC?

[Guest_freelander2_*]

The Gimp, on 17 October 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

Ah yes, Michael Higdon. I forgot about that one. An indicator of the club and its ambition if ever there was one. Was that previous promotion season Turners first full year at CFC?

Turner joined us in Dec 11.

[newbold ken]

freelander2, on 17 October 2016 - 07:03 PM, said:

Turner joined us in Dec 11.

That's right , halfway through the relegation season , also oversaw the signing of Marc Richards summer 2012 and the appointment of Paul cook autumn 2012

[whittman]

newbold ken, on 17 October 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

That's right , halfway through the relegation season , also oversaw the signing of Marc Richards summer 2012 and the appointment of Paul cook autumn 2012

I think the first siting of Richards holding a CFC shirt was taken in his garden at home.

He probably signed on the dotted line when he saw what Turner was offering after he knocked on his door and
he could not believe what we were offering compared to the other clubs supposodly chasing him

[h again]

MDCCCLXVI, on 17 October 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

I believe the huge and unexpected loss despite one of our most successful ever seasons was the real game changer.

Let's not forget that we pretty much sold out the week before the Preston play off game against Bristol City, too.

Just as we've done on a number of occasions since moving onto Sheff Road.

Nah, the good folk of North Derbyshire did their bit and those responsible for the debt rocketing skywards sit somewhat closer to the Chairman.



Fully agree.

It would be nice if you could abandon the politician-speak about 'the good folk of North Derbyshire'. The folk of North Derbyshire are no different to the folk of anywhere else, being a mixture of good, bad and indifferent, and it's only smarmy gits in politics who're trying to butter them up for votes who pretend differently.
And, as if it needed pointing out, these entirely normal people didn't fancy CFC enough to turn out in sufficient numbers to maintain Championship football, even when we'd just got promoted and were playing like a Championship side. We doubled the gates of the Saltergate era, which was a splendid effort, but there's always an upper limit and we'd reached it.
Why you have a problem with that baffles me, but DA's financial involvement concentrated his mind, as you'd expect, and he decided to pull the plug on big spending. Whether he tries again when the dust from the present crisis settles we shall have to see - it's not beyond the realms of possibility, but unlikely.

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

h again, on 17 October 2016 - 08:01 PM, said:

It would be nice if you could abandon the politician-speak about 'the good folk of North Derbyshire'. The folk of North Derbyshire are no different to the folk of anywhere else, being a mixture of good, bad and indifferent, and it's only smarmy gits in politics who're trying to butter them up for votes who pretend differently.
And, as if it needed pointing out, these entirely normal people didn't fancy CFC enough to turn out in sufficient numbers to maintain Championship football, even when we'd just got promoted and were playing like a Championship side. We doubled the gates of the Saltergate era, which was a splendid effort, but there's always an upper limit and we'd reached it.
Why you have a problem with that baffles me, but DA's financial involvement concentrated his mind, as you'd expect, and he decided to pull the plug on big spending. Whether he tries again when the dust from the present crisis settles we shall have to see - it's not beyond the realms of possibility, but unlikely.

If only

[The Black Triangle]

h again, on 17 October 2016 - 08:01 PM, said:

It would be nice if you could abandon the politician-speak about 'the good folk of North Derbyshire'. The folk of North Derbyshire are no different to the folk of anywhere else, being a mixture of good, bad and indifferent, and it's only smarmy gits in politics who're trying to butter them up for votes who pretend differently.
And, as if it needed pointing out, these entirely normal people didn't fancy CFC enough to turn out in sufficient numbers to maintain Championship football, even when we'd just got promoted and were playing like a Championship side. We doubled the gates of the Saltergate era, which was a splendid effort, but there's always an upper limit and we'd reached it.
Why you have a problem with that baffles me, but DA's financial involvement concentrated his mind, as you'd expect, and he decided to pull the plug on big spending. Whether he tries again when the dust from the present crisis settles we shall have to see - it's not beyond the realms of possibility, but unlikely.

Sorry to butt in, and point out the obvious here - but there are a couple of flaws to your argument (whatever that actually is. Probably just being pedantic because MDC...... has posted)
No one is talking about "sustaining" championship football, just the chance of getting there. Then we can throw in Burton Albion. A side currently playing in the championship and a side who reached the championship on gates of around half of what we had while Paul Cook was in charge.
So the screamingly obvious question is this - why could Burton do it on gates of 3500-4000 and we couldn't and lost a huge sum of money on gates of 7000+?
If DA wanted to sell the club, would he have more chance if CFC was a league one club, or a championship club? Second. Would he have more chance of getting his money back as a one season stint championship club(as stated by turner as the best way to clear the debt) r as a struggling league one club?


On a serious note, if you don't want to engage in a serious, factual, reasoned debate but just make silly wild claims (as you have done in the past) then don't bother.

[The Black Triangle]

freelander2, on 17 October 2016 - 07:03 PM, said:

Turner joined us in Dec 11.

As early as that? We'll blow me down. So when did the finances really start to get out of control, it can't have been as early as that can it? So something other than Turners involvement must be a contributing factor to then. Did DA unleash spending backing Cook, because in 2011 Sheridan was here, and Turner is simply the scapegoat/frontman then?
You have surprised me with that.