[calvin plummers socks]

Phil V 72, on 12 June 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

from a Mirror Journo on Twitter -

Fans telling Mirror how some Russian ultras were wearing gloves and had gumshields as they launched their attack on #England fans.

Sounds organised to me

Only like Burnley fans wearing nuckle dusters I guess?

[calvin plummers socks]

Siberian Spireite, on 12 June 2016 - 01:34 PM, said:

Russian men have to do a year's military service, unless they can bribe a doctor to write a sick note, as the richer families do. Therefore most Russians will have spent a year standing around pointlessly, marching around pointlessly, being bullied, learning hand-to-hand combat and living in unbelievably bad conditions. During the five years I lived there it was noticeable that violence, if it occurred, was rarely the peacock-type posturing common in Town of a weekend and usually brutal and over very quickly. I asked a Russian mate why this was and he explained that since you don't know whether your opponent is carrying a weapon or how far he will go, it's best to get things sorted ASAP. I'm not applauding any of this- it taught me to steer well clear of any trouble when living there, though I was mugged a few times.
The most disappointing aspect personally has been how Russian friends on Russian Facebook- lads I used to play football with regularly and who would cack themselves if tackled- are cheering on the Russian violence from afar. The Russian media has been feeding them anti-Western propaganda for months and here is their chance to 'prove themselves' as a nation against a Western country which has led condemnation of Russia's actions in Ukraine (correctly, in my view) and which, importantly to many young Russian football fans, is the home and originator of football violence, as glamourised by films such as 'Green Street' which are, alas, quite popular over there.

I have no idea at all if any of the Russian violence has been organised but given that the rouble has collapsed in value, I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone in Russia is funding the trips of a few hooligans who have gone to Marseille with instructions to follow.

They use Krav Maga I guess?
I was trained in it in a previous career.
It's eliminate the threat, put them down and get out.
Anything more effective than a fat guy in a nylon football shirt with arms outstretched like many England fans in the vids

This post has been edited by calvin plummers socks: 12 June 2016 - 02:44 PM

[Middle East]

firedodger, on 12 June 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

Can't defend him on that one I'm afraid

Guilty as charged particularly last night mate! I've always thought rampaging meant less available drinking time...

[DMU Blue]

trickytrevsfanclub, on 11 June 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

Who were you fuming at, the weather?

More that they didn't tell us until 10pm the night before we arrived.
Luckily we landed on our feet and found a decent hotel that had rooms

Atmosphere in Paris friendly. Not an ounce of trouble in the fan park. Touch wood it will stay the same

[DIFH]

Phil V 72, on 12 June 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

from a Mirror Journo on Twitter -

Fans telling Mirror how some Russian ultras were wearing gloves and had gumshields as they launched their attack on #England fans.

Sounds organised to me

I'm told dentists are very expensive in Russia.

[Mr Mercury]

calvin plummers socks, on 12 June 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

They use Krav Maga I guess?
I was trained in it in a previous career.
It's eliminate the threat, put them down and get out.
Anything more effective than a fat guy in a nylon football shirt with arms outstretched like many England fans in the vids

James, James Bond?

[ash_cfc]

http://www.fsf.org.u...seille-euro2016

[Westbars Spireite]

ash_cfc, on 12 June 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

http://www.fsf.org.u...seille-euro2016

England fans are the victims here. Not that they/we wish to be.

For UEFA to make threats shows how utterly out of touch with reality they are.

[Siberian Spireite]

Westbars Spireite, on 12 June 2016 - 08:38 PM, said:

England fans are the victims here. Not that they/we wish to be.

For UEFA to make threats shows how utterly out of touch with reality they are.

I don't see how threats to disqualify Russia (who may well finish bottom of the group anyway) will make much difference to a meathead who has been paid (and given a visa) to cause trouble in France.

[metallilad]

Westbars Spireite, on 12 June 2016 - 08:38 PM, said:

England fans are the victims here. Not that they/we wish to be.

For UEFA to make threats shows how utterly out of touch with reality they are.

I think it's more to do with UEFA having to rush a statement out quickly. They can't have reviewed all the evidence yet, personally I think the French authorities are going to be blaming England supporters for the trouble because if they blame "organised gangs" for any attacks on English supporters then questions will be raised about there own competence not only to nip it in the bud before it starts but also about the supporters safety against terrorism. England supporters look to be victims here as far as I'm concerned but I can say that because I'm not a major governing body that HAS got to get it right when I say something.
UEFA are covering there backs at the moment with that statement.

The real problems are going to start again when we play Wales because for a start the Welsh will want to kick off because there's a good chance they could get us kicked out but what's even more worrying is that Russia's next match is the day before ours and is only 24 miles away.

[calvin plummers socks]

Siberian Spireite, on 12 June 2016 - 08:52 PM, said:

I don't see how threats to disqualify Russia (who may well finish bottom of the group anyway) will make much difference to a meathead who has been paid (and given a visa) to cause trouble in France.

Struggling to understand why this rumour is out why the Russian government have paid people to cause trouble?

[Misnomer]

Bobby Darling, on 12 June 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

It was meant to be tongue in cheek in response to a previous link. Detonating a loud firework though in a big crowd at this particular time ought to provoke a reaction from the French Government. All eyes should now be on the Russian supporters in Lille later in the week. France is in a self declared State of Emergency yet men dressed in black wearing masks, detonating fireworks, were allowed to charge down a street. Big question mark against French national security.

I'll rephrase the story. Various Russian ultras (the leaders and others) were trained by/with pro-Russian Ukrainian special forces, fact. Why would I make that up (Google it). As I and others have previously highlighted; the precision, combat-style attacks are certainly not the stereotypical bouncing on toes, come hitherto hand gesticulating, windmill arms type hooligans we are used to seeing. Even on the Reggie Yates bbc programme, where he travelled to Russia (and the Ross Kemp one); the highly indoctrinated, gay-hating, black-hating, Muslim-hating, West-hating...youths were being well trained in knife combat and hand to hand combat; i don't ever remember seeing that in the CBS/YBS hooligan manual.....that's tongue in cheek btw.

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

Misnomer, on 12 June 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

I'll rephrase the story. Various Russian ultras (the leaders and others) were trained by/with pro-Russian Ukrainian special forces, fact. Why would I make that up (Google it). As I and others have previously highlighted; the precision, combat-style attacks are certainly not the stereotypical bouncing on toes, come hitherto hand gesticulating, windmill arms type hooligans we are used to seeing. Even on the Reggie Yates bbc programme, where he travelled to Russia (and the Ross Kemp one); the highly indoctrinated, gay-hating, black-hating, Muslim-hating, West-hating...youths were being well trained in knife combat and hand to hand combat; i don't ever remember seeing that in the CBS/YBS hooligan manual.....that's tongue in cheek btw.

With the over 80s flocking to the Proact for the free season tickets we might have to write a new manual next season should it kick off. Walking sticks and zimmers on the front line in a pincer formation

[Siberian Spireite]

calvin plummers socks, on 12 June 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

Struggling to understand why this rumour is out why the Russian government have paid people to cause trouble?

It may be the government but is more likely some pro-Putin agency intent on whipping up yet more anti-Western nationalistic fervour among a bovine population. It seems to be working, judging by the reaction of some (decent lads, generally) I used to play against in Siberia.

Disqualifying Russia would actually feed those fires and play into the hands of the propagandists and their image of Russia as an unfairly victimised pariah.

This post has been edited by Siberian Spireite: 12 June 2016 - 09:23 PM

[metallilad]

Just been reading this on Facebook. Somebody has posted it up who's over in Marseille.

"Think it is ample time to just communicate with people back home on the situation here in Marseille. I appreciate people are relying on pretty hazy media reports from probably Thursday until of course tonight as well. I am very grateful for messages of concern and I am absolutely fine. I think it would be easy and probably simplistic to lay the blame solely at someone's feet - England, Russia, French, Police - I believe it falls somewhere in the middle. Over the last couple of days, I have been tear gassed three times, have had to run from flying bottles and an almost instant ambush from both Russian and French fans. I think barring a number of altercations yesterday night, England fans HAVE NOT once actively started an altercation with opposing sets of supporters but have responded partly through fear and full frontal danger. I have had it with opportunistic members in positions of power - journalists, MPs, the FA - you are not telling the honest picture. You exist to tell the truth.

Tonight, as thousands walked to the game, 30 or 40 Russian fans came from nowhere and pelted fans - families, small children, normal people, with bottles and missiles. The sight of a mother and her two young girls in tears, with nowhere to run but a high fence, was utterly shocking and astounding. I think the blame lies mainly at the feet of the French police and authorities. Their level of crowd and civil management has been excruciatingly bad. They do not interact with fans, they intimidate, they make their presence known, then they are either absent or fully confrontational with batons/tear gas, water cannons. Tonight, at the opposite side of the ground, England fans were set upon by what seemed to be 1,000 Russians at full time - again. These were innocent people. 'Fans', some of which are English, go to games to solely fight. These people can be found and are obvious when they are looking for it. Innocent people in the ground are not targets and should not ever be set upon. The police were absolutely nowhere. They need to take a long, hard look at how they manage what I admit is a difficult situation but they have got it badly wrong and people are potentially paying with their lives.

On a brighter note, the feeling of sheer elation when Eric Dier scored in front of thousands of England fans was simply unforgettable and a moment that makes it all worth it. A disappointing night on the pitch, but we live to fight another day. I hope some innocent football supporters can say the same."

This post has been edited by metallilad: 12 June 2016 - 09:40 PM

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

metallilad, on 12 June 2016 - 09:38 PM, said:

Just been reading this on Facebook. Somebody has posted it up who's over in Marseille.

"Think it is ample time to just communicate with people back home on the situation here in Marseille. I appreciate people are relying on pretty hazy media reports from probably Thursday until of course tonight as well. I am very grateful for messages of concern and I am absolutely fine. I think it would be easy and probably simplistic to lay the blame solely at someone's feet - England, Russia, French, Police - I believe it falls somewhere in the middle. Over the last couple of days, I have been tear gassed three times, have had to run from flying bottles and an almost instant ambush from both Russian and French fans. I think barring a number of altercations yesterday night, England fans HAVE NOT once actively started an altercation with opposing sets of supporters but have responded partly through fear and full frontal danger. I have had it with opportunistic members in positions of power - journalists, MPs, the FA - you are not telling the honest picture. You exist to tell the truth.

Tonight, as thousands walked to the game, 30 or 40 Russian fans came from nowhere and pelted fans - families, small children, normal people, with bottles and missiles. The sight of a mother and her two young girls in tears, with nowhere to run but a high fence, was utterly shocking and astounding. I think the blame lies mainly at the feet of the French police and authorities. Their level of crowd and civil management has been excruciatingly bad. They do not interact with fans, they intimidate, they make their presence known, then they are either absent or fully confrontational with batons/tear gas, water cannons. Tonight, at the opposite side of the ground, England fans were set upon by what seemed to be 1,000 Russians at full time - again. These were innocent people. 'Fans', some of which are English, go to games to solely fight. These people can be found and are obvious when they are looking for it. Innocent people in the ground are not targets and should not ever be set upon. The police were absolutely nowhere. They need to take a long, hard look at how they manage what I admit is a difficult situation but they have got it badly wrong and people are potentially paying with their lives.

On a brighter note, the feeling of sheer elation when Eric Dier scored in front of thousands of England fans was simply unforgettable and a moment that makes it all worth it. A disappointing night on the pitch, but we live to fight another day. I hope some innocent football supporters can say the same."

He/she should just have walked away when they saw it coming lol.

[spireitenag]

calvin plummers socks, on 12 June 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

They use Krav Maga I guess?
I was trained in it in a previous career.
It's eliminate the threat, put them down and get out.
Anything more effective than a fat guy in a nylon football shirt with arms outstretched like many England fans in the vids

So you were formerly in the Israeli Secret Service ?

[spireitenag]

EUFA have spent years turning a blind eye to the racist/anti semetic and hooligan behaviour of the fans various eastern European countries as well as Turkey,Spain,Portugal.etc.

It's just so easy to continue to blame everything on 'The English Disease'.

[azul]

Siberian Spireite, on 12 June 2016 - 09:19 PM, said:

It may be the government but is more likely some pro-Putin agency intent on whipping up yet more anti-Western nationalistic fervour among a bovine population. It seems to be working, judging by the reaction of some (decent lads, generally) I used to play against in Siberia.

Disqualifying Russia would actually feed those fires and play into the hands of the propagandists and their image of Russia as an unfairly victimised pariah.

I agreed with your original post about attitudes in Russia having experienced it myself but I'm afraid I can't agree with this new tack. In fact I'm starting to deeply regret it

This post has been edited by azul: 12 June 2016 - 10:08 PM

[calvin plummers socks]

spireitenag, on 12 June 2016 - 09:53 PM, said:

So you were formerly in the Israeli Secret Service ?

No, it's a recognised training method for loads of organisations- but was created for Mossad