[Mr Mercury]

dtp, on 24 November 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

Can't remember him saying that Mr Mercury.

I do remember Doyle having a bit of a dry spell then a flourish in his last 2 or 3 games for us but I don't think CT mentioned 18 games.

Must say though, for all the flack CT gets, I thought he did ok last night. Yes he might have made a few mistakes but it isn't easy trying to answer questions from the floor when you don't know what is coming at you next and you haven't got a ready made note to help. He isn't a politician avoiding the question and answering questions not asked instead - he tried to answer the questions which were asked.

I think he did!

dtp, on 24 November 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

And 2 in his previous 6 games.

That's 5 in his last 8 then, dead cert for the stiffs eh?

[dim view]

dtp, on 24 November 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

John Croot was there last night but said absolutely nothing and preferring to let others field all related questions!!!

'They can't pay back the money they owe. They haven't got a tenner' : Dave Allen last night to the Post.

I think John was right to say nowt. He can now reflect on the best course of action, and they presumably have their own AGM.

What's clear to me is that summat is seriously up when the Trust is unable to resist what amounts to hostile action by CFC, firstly because they can't afford what appeared to be a modest annual repayment to CFC of less than £20k (£5.6k plus interest on the outstanding amount, for 99 years), and secondly because they have not got the paperwork to prevent their landlord reclaiming the bricks and mortar. CT said last night he was considering new ideas for the 'footprint' of the whole ground. He must feel he is on very safe ground when it comes to debating the ownership of the East Stand.

dim view, on 24 November 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

'They can't pay back the money they owe. They haven't got a tenner' : Dave Allen last night to the Post.

I think John was right to say nowt. He can now reflect on the best course of action, and they presumably have their own AGM.

What's clear to me is that summat is seriously up when the Trust is unable to resist what amounts to hostile action by CFC, firstly because they can't afford what appeared to be a modest annual repayment to CFC of less than £20k (£5.6k plus interest on the outstanding amount, for 99 years), and secondly because they have not got the paperwork to prevent their landlord reclaiming the bricks and mortar. CT said last night he was considering new ideas for the 'footprint' of the whole ground. He must feel he is on very safe ground when it comes to contesting ownership of the East Stand.

[dtp]

FORZA AZZURRI, on 24 November 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

DA .....same old same old ....after the AGM.
http://www.chesterfi...c_00001212.html

But, then again, there was a chap who blatantly was telling DA to throw more and more money at it because if he didn't he was lacking ambition.

Obviously, this guy thinks there is a bottomless pit of money which should be introduced to further the football club with no thoughts as to the viability of such thinking.

Surely, DA has a right of reply and like most of us when we get wound up we strike back.

dim view, on 24 November 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

No fee, big sell on. Source: DS Q and A session.

That's how I understand it. Free transfer 42% sell on clause.

[60s 70s Spireite]

dtp, on 24 November 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

That is exactly it. There is a special tax form (possibly a CT61) which the tax office send out and has to be completed on a quarterly basis and the appropriate tax paid over.

It is indeed a form CT61. However, if the club had deducted the money, why has it come as a shock to them that HMRC want said money? (See Ashley Carson's reference to £140k repeated above)?

This post has been edited by 60s 70s Spireite: 24 November 2015 - 04:11 PM

[boot]

Mr Mercury, on 24 November 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

I think he did!


That's 5 in his last 8 then, dead cert for the stiffs eh?

I think he did as well Mr Mercury. Silly thing to say but on the whole I thought he covered the rest of the stuff he answered very well and so did Saunders.

Turner revealed that Doyle was on under £2k/week with us and offered 3 years on £8k at Cardiff - no need to try to justify his sale other than stating the obvious,which he did - Doyle wanted to go and who can blame him.

Just one comment on your reports - I don't think the club that made the derisory bid for Doyle was Preston but Sheffield United. If you recall,Turner said the club in question was going for promotion but didn't get promoted - sounds like Sheff.U. to me.

This post has been edited by boot: 24 November 2015 - 04:25 PM

[Mr Mercury]

boot, on 24 November 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

I think he did as well Mr Mercury. Silly thing to say but on the whole I thought he covered the rest of the stuff he answered very well and so did Saunders.

Turner revealed that Doyle was on under £2k/week with us and offered 3 years on £8k at Cardiff - no need to try to justify his sale other than stating the obvious,which he did - Doyle wanted to go and who can blame him.

Just one comment on your reports - I don't think the club that made the derisory bid for Doyle was Preston but Sheffield United. If you recall,Turner said the club in question was going for promotion but didn't get promoted - sounds like Sheff.U. to me.

Ah right I was just guessing. Also didn't CT say a local club in our division was budgeting for a 3m loss this season in an attempt to go up?

[bluecentre]

Mr Mercury, on 23 November 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

Part one...
Right then folks here's what I can remember, apologies to anyone I misquote or figures I get wrong..
This seasons budget is 2milion, up from 1.8m last season. This is around the 1/2 way mark in the division.
We do need to sell players to keep the debt down and maybe someone else can go into more detail why this seasons profit was so low.
The players wages went up last season by 20% contractually due to promotion, also they would go down by the same 20% if we got relegated. Also there would be an increase if we went up again!
e four players who left last season all requested to go, there's no way we can match Championship wages. Doyle himself phoned Cook at night to say he wanted to go to Cardiff. The club turned down two derisory bids around 175k then 300k from the same Championship club, my guess is PNE, before Cardiff came in on deadline day with an initial bid of 500k this then, with add ons rose to the million mark.
Doyle was on around 2k here and this went to around 8k at Cardiff. At this point there was a bit of verbal jousting from an attendee and DA regarding lack of ambition. This resulted in a bring me 9million quid and you can have the club exchange..
The training ground upgrade will cost around 250k to 350k so is on the back burner at the minute.

Will the season tickets go down if we drop into division two?

Mr Mercury, on 23 November 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

Part one...
Right then folks here's what I can remember, apologies to anyone I misquote or figures I get wrong..
This seasons budget is 2milion, up from 1.8m last season. This is around the 1/2 way mark in the division.
We do need to sell players to keep the debt down and maybe someone else can go into more detail why this seasons profit was so low.
The players wages went up last season by 20% contractually due to promotion, also they would go down by the same 20% if we got relegated. Also there would be an increase if we went up again!
e four players who left last season all requested to go, there's no way we can match Championship wages. Doyle himself phoned Cook at night to say he wanted to go to Cardiff. The club turned down two derisory bids around 175k then 300k from the same Championship club, my guess is PNE, before Cardiff came in on deadline day with an initial bid of 500k this then, with add ons rose to the million mark.
Doyle was on around 2k here and this went to around 8k at Cardiff. At this point there was a bit of verbal jousting from an attendee and DA regarding lack of ambition. This resulted in a bring me 9million quid and you can have the club exchange..
The training ground upgrade will cost around 250k to 350k so is on the back burner at the minute.

Will the season tickets go down if we drop into division two?

[Westbars Spireite]

NOKIN, on 24 November 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

I'll hazard a guess you didn't go and say stuff like this face to face?

I'm not a shareholder so wasn't invited to the AGM.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

First of all a big 'thankyou' to those reporting or explaining events.

'Mr M', 'Dim View', 'forevablue' and '60s 70s Spireite'.

So what've we learned that we didn't already know?

Errrm...well not too much.

The Chairman reiterated that players wanted to go - of course they did, every player wants to play at the highest possible level for the highest possible salary. However he also reiterated we have to sell to address the debt, which has been his narrative for quite some time. Especially after last year's stunning losses. Well I guess some will accept Allen's words as gospel whilst others will question the contradiction: players left 'cos we needed the cash v no choice but to allow players to leave 'cos they requested moves? All I'll say is that I can't believe anyone could force Dave Allen into anything he didn't want to do.

Same applies to Cook. Demanded £2.5M? Like the players accused of forcing exits he wasn't there to confirm or deny it.

At face value the offer to write off as much debt as CBC is a commendable gesture. Yet let's say it again: CBC simply cannot write off loans to private individuals, which effectively theirs' is. I note that Allen's company receive only one percent less interest, too.

C&B profit of £250K? Can someone with access to last years accounts please confirm if that's lower or higher than 2013/14. Good news about a sponsorship deal, mind (I note Arnold Clark are in the process of opening a new outlet in Town. Hmmm...).

What isn't good news, though, (infact it's absolutely bewildering news) is Dave Allen having to inject another £300K (!?!) just to make ends meet. This despite everything that was said at the previous AGM in terms of reducing the deficit. The bottom line remains - literally - that this football club is haemorrhaging money and no one can give a straight answer why. Apparently 'mistakes have been made'. Really? Seriously? 'Bob's Board' members have been stating as much all along.

As for Saunders I take as much notice of his rhetoric as I do Turner's. It's like this: if he knows what he's doing we'll climb the league, attract more punters and produce assets. If he doesn't, we won't. And sooner or later he'll be sacked. No amount of spin will change that.

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 24 November 2015 - 07:25 PM

[Cartman]

as a financial layman what I'm reading suggests that although the Community Trust idea was a very honorable one, it seems to be a massive financial failure and that added to extra tax burden seems to be what makes up the extra 'unforseen' costs?

At least we are paying our dues to the taxman and not doing a Southend!

[Guest_freelander2_*]

Crikey, where do you start with last night!

1) There's an acceptance from the top table that whilst we need to sell players every year to balance the books, it can't be relied upon.

2) There's a reluctance to cut the budget (I'll call this basic pay). However, I suspect a finish just above the drop zone might shave hundreds of thousands off last year's total wage bill. For some idiotic reason, CT keeps benchmarking us against poorly run, over-ambitious clubs instead of comparing us with those clubs with good structures and strong leaders, I think we all know the reasons why.

3) From top to bottom and I include DA in this, no one at the club lives & breathes the numbers. Without Howard Freeman from Shorts, the Auditors, the top table struggled. An example being when they were asked about the sale of Doyle and if the total transfer value was included in the turnover, no one from the club knew and the answer that CT did give was wrong and had to be corrected by the Auditor.

4) CT openly acknowledged that he wasn't a stats. man.

5) DA has loaned the club a further £300K this month to cover short term liabilities.

6) AC revealed that the club had been the subject of a HMRC investigation which highlighted a number of bad practices, mainly:

-That tax had been deducted at source on Directors' loan but amounts covering the same had never been paid to HMRC.

-Issues involving benefits in kind relating to accommodation & (I think) he mentioned vehicles as well.

Note, I'm sure DA mentioned that either the Accountants or Auditors bill for sorting this mess out was in the region of £20K-£25K.


On a personal note, I started working full time in September '99 and during that time, I think I've had 3 days off sick in total. This blazay attitude towards the basics, finance and administration would send me over the edge, my head would be bouncing off the walls, I would be having sleepless nights. In my opinion, it's car crash stuff. As sure as eggs are eggs, it will be something else next year.

[spireitetoo]

MDCCCLXVI, on 24 November 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:

As for Saunders I take as much notice of his rhetoric as I do Turner's. It's like this: if he knows what he's doing we'll climb the league, attract more punters and produce assets. If he doesn't, we won't. And sooner or later he'll be sacked. No amount of spin will change that.

On the evidence on the pitch. ....my monies are on the latter.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

freelander2, on 24 November 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

Crikey, where do you start with last night!

1) There's an acceptance from the top table that whilst we need to sell players every year to balance the books, it can't be relied upon.

2) There's a reluctance to cut the budget (I'll call this basic pay). However, I suspect a finish just above the drop zone might shave hundreds of thousands off last year's total wage bill. For some idiotic reason, CT keeps benchmarking us against poorly run, over-ambitious clubs instead of comparing us with those clubs with good structures and strong leaders, I think we all know the reasons why.

3) From top to bottom and I include DA in this, no one at the club lives & breathes the numbers. Without Howard Freeman from Shorts, the Auditors, the top table struggled. An example being when they were asked about the sale of Doyle and if the total transfer value was included in the turnover, no one from the club knew and the answer that CT did give was wrong and had to be corrected by the Auditor.

4) CT openly acknowledged that he wasn't a stats. man.

5) DA has loaned the club a further £300K this month to cover short term liabilities.

6) AC revealed that the club had been the subject of a HMRC investigation which highlighted a number of bad practices, mainly:

-That tax had been deducted at source on Directors' loan but amounts covering the same had never been paid to HMRC.

-Issues involving benefits in kind relating to accommodation & (I think) he mentioned vehicles as well.

Note, I'm sure DA mentioned that either the Accountants or Auditors bill for sorting this mess out was in the region of £20K-£25K.


On a personal note, I started working full time in September '99 and during that time, I think I've had 3 days off sick in total. This blazay attitude towards the basics, finance and administration would send me over the edge, my head would be bouncing off the walls, I would be having sleepless nights. In my opinion, it's car crash stuff. As sure as eggs are eggs, it will be something else next year.

So to summise: unless DA appoints someone versed in accountancy and business practice the bailiffs will be turning up...

[60s 70s Spireite]

freelander2, on 24 November 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

Crikey, where do you start with last night!

1) There's an acceptance from the top table that whilst we need to sell players every year to balance the books, it can't be relied upon.

2) There's a reluctance to cut the budget (I'll call this basic pay). However, I suspect a finish just above the drop zone might shave hundreds of thousands off last year's total wage bill. For some idiotic reason, CT keeps benchmarking us against poorly run, over-ambitious clubs instead of comparing us with those clubs with good structures and strong leaders, I think we all know the reasons why.

3) From top to bottom and I include DA in this, no one at the club lives & breathes the numbers. Without Howard Freeman from Shorts, the Auditors, the top table struggled. An example being when they were asked about the sale of Doyle and if the total transfer value was included in the turnover, no one from the club knew and the answer that CT did give was wrong and had to be corrected by the Auditor.

4) CT openly acknowledged that he wasn't a stats. man.

5) DA has loaned the club a further £300K this month to cover short term liabilities.

6) AC revealed that the club had been the subject of a HMRC investigation which highlighted a number of bad practices, mainly:

-That tax had been deducted at source on Directors' loan but amounts covering the same had never been paid to HMRC.

-Issues involving benefits in kind relating to accommodation & (I think) he mentioned vehicles as well.

Note, I'm sure DA mentioned that either the Accountants or Auditors bill for sorting this mess out was in the region of £20K-£25K.


On a personal note, I started working full time in September '99 and during that time, I think I've had 3 days off sick in total. This blazay attitude towards the basics, finance and administration would send me over the edge, my head would be bouncing off the walls, I would be having sleepless nights. In my opinion, it's car crash stuff. As sure as eggs are eggs, it will be something else next year.

I have tried to PM you but your inbox is full. Have you the accounts handy? How does the interest figure in 2015 compare to the 2014 figure?

[Cartman]

MDCCCLXVI, on 24 November 2015 - 07:34 PM, said:

So to summise: unless DA appoints someone versed in accountancy and business practice the bailiffs will be turning up...

yes, seems like appointing a proper accounting team would be a good idea and they would easily merit their salaries

[dim view]

MDCCCLXVI, on 24 November 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:

First of all a big 'thankyou' to those reporting or explaining events.

'Mr M', 'Dim View', 'forevablue' and '60s 70s Spireite'.

So what've we learned that we didn't already know?

heyup Ode lad.

CT did very well last night but in addition to the story about Doyle, he did actually contradict himself. He said both that DA would need to inject £300k next month and that this year for the first time in ages he hoped that borrowing wouldn't be needed. To be fair to him, answering questions on the hoof, I think his first remark was in support of his Chairman to prove DA's ambition. He was exaggerating and I'll let him off.

We also learned that (and I think this is accurate), we'll get £200k each time Portsmuff are promoted whilst PC is under contract.

The Auditor readily agreed to list all items of expenditure to account for the £2m quid spent over and above listed costs, and they all seemed bona fida.

[h again]

60s 70s Spireite, on 24 November 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

Five goals in his last seven games for us. He wanted a period in the stiffs for a such a shocking return.
As you say CT lets himself down with the comments you report.

On another matter, the issue of the tax not deducted from interest payments, to be fair I think CT can point the finger at the professional advice, either internal or external not given. I deal with scores of larger business owners, I can't think of any who recognise that tax has to be deducted from interest payments to individuals.
It's nearly always an intervention we have to make, hopefully because the owner or MD told us what they proposed to do, or we spotted the issue when reviewing the accounts.

I should think that would catch most people out. Shouldn't the Directors be paid their interest and then have to pay the tax due themselves? How can it be down to the club to pay tax on money they're paying out?

[Tylerdurdencfc]

dim view, on 24 November 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

heyup Ode lad.

CT did very well last night but in addition to the story about Doyle, he did actually contradict himself. He said both that DA would need to inject £300k next month and that this year for the first time in ages he hoped that borrowing wouldn't be needed. To be fair to him, answering questions on the hoof, I think his first remark was in support of his Chairman to prove DA's ambition. He was exaggerating and I'll let him off.

We also learned that (and I think this is accurate), we'll get £200k each time Portsmuff are promoted whilst PC is under contract.

The Auditor readily agreed to list all items of expenditure to account for the £2m quid spent over and above listed costs, and they all seemed bona fida.

And what were these list of items?

[dim view]

Tylerdurdencfc, on 24 November 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

And what were these list of items?

I can't remember.