[60s 70s Spireite]

Search and Destroy, on 24 April 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

Can't agree sorry, Bristol City Sheffield United, Barnsley Bradford Preston, MK Seindon Coventry then us isn't it?
9 th best gates? 365 day income, high ticket prices, tiny budget and we have to find £1m in player sales to survive.

How do the others get on with no player sales?

Bristol City, Sheff Utd. Barnsley, Preston, MK Dons, Swindon, Coventry all use Directors cash not supporter and other revenue streams to resource their clubs,. Bradford, if you didn't notice, got to the final of the League Cup and the Quarter Finals of the FA Cup in the last two seasons. Plus MK Dons reportedly got £2M for Baldock a couple of seasons ago, and this season sold Alli for £5M.

Answer enough?

What we need is not a millionaire owner. It's a mutil millionaire. And that's no offence to Dave Allen.

[jamie_bolsover]

Search and Destroy, on 24 April 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

Can't agree sorry, Bristol City Sheffield United, Barnsley Bradford Preston, MK Seindon Coventry then us isn't it?
9 th best gates? 365 day income, high ticket prices, tiny budget and we have to find £1m in player sales to survive.

How do the others get on with no player sales?

the £1m player sale is over the past five years, I don't believe our budget is tiny, I believe it's about half way house for L1.
It's not like we're selling players each and every year, if we are losing money then onviously income streams aren't enough to cover overheads, the bulk of which are staff, playing and non playing and stadium financing.
Check Sheff Yoo's last few financials, bigger club, bigger gates..... Bigger losses prior to this season

Other clubs do sell players to survive, Col U sold their star man Freddy but their seasons not quite been like ours.

I don't have the magic answer and neither does anyone else,,if someone has the answer please enlighten, I only put down how I see it, the last five years has been a roller coaster, yet the more we deliver, the more the expectation levels go through the roof, yet the gates remain modest.

[sixmilliondollardan]

lindave, on 24 April 2015 - 07:45 PM, said:

And me.

I guess he means we have a limit on the funds we can bring in and therefore how much we can spend on players which places a ceiling on our progress.

[jamie_bolsover]

sixmilliondollardan, on 24 April 2015 - 08:03 PM, said:

I guess he means we have a limit on the funds we can bring in and therefore how much we can spend on players which places a ceiling on our progress.

That's how I see it, in a mediocre L2 season, the season before last we got on a poor day circa 4-4,500, again on a bad day.

A couple of weeks ago, on the back of a late surge into the play offs with four wins and a draw we play Col U on a Tuesday night with a tenner deal and we fail to get a deal above 6k.... There's the ceiling.

[60s 70s Spireite]

jamie_bolsover, on 24 April 2015 - 08:07 PM, said:

That's how I see it, in a mediocre L2 season, the season before last we got on a poor day circa 4-4,500, again on a bad day.

A couple of weeks ago, on the back of a late surge into the play offs with four wins and a draw we play Col U on a Tuesday night with a tenner deal and we fail to get a deal above 6k.... There's the ceiling.

For a mid week match.

[jamie_bolsover]

60s 70s Spireite, on 24 April 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

For a mid week match.

Yes, I did say a Tuesday night! The miserable Millers on their final Tuesday night home game last season when in a similar position to us pulled in well over 8,000 and their season average was what last year? 2 k more? X 23 x £15 a head, £700,000.

This post has been edited by jamie_bolsover: 24 April 2015 - 09:31 PM

[Zytok]

fair point well made Jamie, it would be great if more occasional fans turned up. The only possible argument is that according to wiki Rotherham has a population of 250K whereas Chesterfield is 100K even though that as ttbscir many people go to watch the Sheffield clubs instead. Can only presume that much of the financial problems though at our club are down to Dave & co over-estimating the gate receipts and budgeting accordingly.

This post has been edited by Zytok: 25 April 2015 - 05:43 AM

[jamie_bolsover]

Fully understand why our gates are where they are mate, were a small town and yes DA probably has over estimated what the potential fan base was, as did some of our fans, remember first season at proactive and folk were clamouring for the corners to be filled in!

The point I'm trying to make is there seems to be a belief that were working on q shoestring budget where as I don't believe we are, I believe we are working on a budget that is about mid table league 1 budget.
If the budgets are so severe on the playing front it's amazing that we managed to win three pieces of silver in five years, two with a manager who is now at a larger club than us but can't get them in a similar position.

There also seems to be some clamouring for budget increases but clearly our paying fan base at present cannot support this.

Anyway, enough of all this, today is a day we all need to be positive and pull in the same direction, our club and our chance.

[Wooden Spoon]

jamie_bolsover, on 25 April 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

Fully understand why our gates are where they are mate, were a small town and yes DA probably has over estimated what the potential fan base was, as did some of our fans, remember first season at proactive and folk were clamouring for the corners to be filled in!

The point I'm trying to make is there seems to be a belief that were working on q shoestring budget where as I don't believe we are, I believe we are working on a budget that is about mid table league 1 budget.
If the budgets are so severe on the playing front it's amazing that we managed to win three pieces of silver in five years, two with a manager who is now at a larger club than us but can't get them in a similar position.

There also seems to be some clamouring for budget increases but clearly our paying fan base at present cannot support this.

Anyway, enough of all this, today is a day we all need to be positive and pull in the same direction, our club and our chance.

I think you miss understand what is being questioned Jamie. It's not the wise of the budget that is being questioned, we all know we are not A big club and that 7000 is about as good as it's going to get for the foreseeable future. It's a question of how the club loses a 7 figure sum when by all appearances the club seems to be generating record revenues.

The total wage bill was under £4,000,000. Still a huge amount of money. The total wage bill has risen 25% in 4 years. It appears as though the players wages are around half of that. Turn over was around £6,500,000 yet losses were over £1,000,000!!! If you say player wages and bonus was £2,500,000 what is happening to the other £5,000,000??

It's an astonishing amount of money.

[Rudeboy spireite]

Unfortunately I think that cookie will go due the potential at Portsmouth, in fact I think it is a done deal. Brentford manager Mark Warburton is available so if Cookie is going go and get Mark. Either way we will still be watching next year

[Dreaming Spire]

In reply to 'a kick in the balls' .....

Spot on mate !
The ONLY issue our club have to resolve is the "WHERE HAS THE MONEY GONE" issue and if we averaged 10,000 fans per home game I get the feeling that this issue would still be there. More income from higher attendances would only serve to paper over the cracks. I also get the feeling that the existing set up we have doesn't seem to be capable of resolving this issue. So what exactly needs to be done, I have no idea, other than some form of independent audit of the finances or whatever ? I don't know ! But what really baffles me is how the heck can this 'black hole' be continually swept under the carpet ?? .... Or are we just incapable of addressing this issue ?

Sorry to go on about this, on such a day as today ! It's probably one of the most important days of my life as a supporter (55 years now!) and I can't believe how close we could be to realising all our dreams.
Wow ! ..... COME ON, TOWN !!!

This post has been edited by Dreaming Spire: 25 April 2015 - 07:05 AM

[Wooden Spoon]

Dreaming Spire, on 25 April 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

In reply to 'a kick in the balls' .....

Spot on mate !
The ONLY issue our club have to resolve is the "WHERE HAS THE MONEY GONE" issue and if we averaged 10,000 fans per home game I get the feeling that this issue would still be there. More income from higher attendances would only serve to paper over the cracks. I also get the feeling that the existing set up we have doesn't seem to be capable of resolving this issue. So what exactly needs to be done, I have no idea, other than some form of independent audit of the finances or whatever ? I don't know ! But what really baffles me is how the heck can this 'black hole' be continually swept under the carpet ?? .... Or are we just incapable of addressing this issue ?

Sorry to go on about this, on such a day as today ! It's probably one of the most important days of my life as a supporter (55 years now!) and I can't believe how close we could be to realising all our dreams.
Wow ! ..... COME ON, TOWN !!!

To cover last seasons losses we would have needed to average over 8000.

Turner said we needed 7000. So what happened?

This year the players budget has been frozen, gates are just short of 7000, we had a decent cup run and sold 2 players for significant 6 figure sums, while spending just £80,000 in transfer fees.

If the accounts do not show a significant profit and/or significant reduction in debts then there is something seriously awry.

[Dreaming Spire]

a kick in the balls, on 25 April 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

To cover last seasons losses we would have needed to average over 8000.

Turner said we needed 7000. So what happened?

This year the players budget has been frozen, gates are just short of 7000, we had a decent cup run and sold 2 players for significant 6 figure sums, while spending just £80,000 in transfer fees.

If the accounts do not show a significant profit and/or significant reduction in debts then there is something seriously awry.

Exactly !

[NOFX]

Cook knows he needs more money, he can't have it, jimmy ryan will go elsewhere, as his wage demands aren't met. So paul cook starts to look elsewhere himself, the only way out of the equation is for an external investor to put in mega bucks. That's unlikely to happen.

[60s 70s Spireite]

strangler, on 25 April 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

Cook knows he needs more money, he can't have it, jimmy ryan will go elsewhere, as his wage demands aren't met. So paul cook starts to look elsewhere himself, the only way out of the equation is for an external investor to put in mega bucks. That's unlikely to happen.

I am afraid that's what football is about at this level. Fleetwood's owner has seen the club suffer losses of over £1.7M in each of the last three years. Apart from the mega rich owner needed, we have to hope beyond hope we are about to see a miracle and Town in the second tier, waiting for that Sky TV money to hit the bank.

[jamie_bolsover]

a kick in the balls, on 25 April 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

I think you miss understand what is being questioned Jamie. It's not the wise of the budget that is being questioned, we all know we are not A big club and that 7000 is about as good as it's going to get for the foreseeable future. It's a question of how the club loses a 7 figure sum when by all appearances the club seems to be generating record revenues.

The total wage bill was under £4,000,000. Still a huge amount of money. The total wage bill has risen 25% in 4 years. It appears as though the players wages are around half of that. Turn over was around £6,500,000 yet losses were over £1,000,000!!! If you say player wages and bonus was £2,500,000 what is happening to the other £5,000,000??

It's an astonishing amount of money.

The salaries additional to playing staff I assume are staff to operate the corporate side, which in turn generates our improved revenue, maybe our chair has over estimated our potential, I don't for one minute think he would employ non necessity staff, he's a business man after all who has over the years made his money.
He's invested and loaned heavily in the club, more than anyone else in our history, his financial input is second to none so I doubt very much he is allowing unnecessary losses.

I could be wrong of course but common sense would say they will try everything possible to run the club at least on an even keel but presently that's failing, an extra thousand on the gate would be all the difference but we aren't there at the moment, despite the leap in comfort at our games, the product being excellent for three out of the past five years and despite his five year plan potentially being on the cusp.

I don't expect everyone to agree, we all have opinions and we all love our club.
I'll leave it here for good on this subject, let's all have a great day.

[Beelzebub]

Zytok, on 25 April 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

according to wiki Rotherham has a population of 250K whereas Chesterfield is 100K .

Not this nonsense again. Don't trust wiki as the figures you quote are not comparing like for like. Rotherham's figure comprises the whole area not just the town. To compare like for like you would need the add the NEDDC and Bolsover DC populations which would give us a third of a million. Considering a lot of our support comes from theses areas that figure seems more appropriate. The latent support is there, continued success on the field will bring it out.

[Dancingwilldoit]

a kick in the balls, on 25 April 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

I think you miss understand what is being questioned Jamie. It's not the wise of the budget that is being questioned, we all know we are not A big club and that 7000 is about as good as it's going to get for the foreseeable future. It's a question of how the club loses a 7 figure sum when by all appearances the club seems to be generating record revenues.

The total wage bill was under £4,000,000. Still a huge amount of money. The total wage bill has risen 25% in 4 years. It appears as though the players wages are around half of that. Turn over was around £6,500,000 yet losses were over £1,000,000!!! If you say player wages and bonus was £2,500,000 what is happening to the other £5,000,000??

It's an astonishing amount of money.

The club has lost money because it has spent more on outgoings than it has received - that's just plain simple fact. Its no good just keep going over the same old rhetoric "where's the money gone?" - what money?. Accounts are published and audited every year. Do you honestly think somebody has creamed off a cool £5mill from dear old CFC or that there's £5mill kicking around in a petty cash tin somewhere? It doesn't matter what the wage bill is or was, we lost money and it has to be pulled back from somewhere.
Gates are not going to increase by much so we have to cut back. Whats done is done and it needs correcting but I am sure DA is asking any questions that need answers. If not he shouldn't be in business.

[Elmer Fudd's Thick Lip]

60s 70s Spireite, on 24 April 2015 - 07:51 PM, said:

Bristol City, Sheff Utd. Barnsley, Preston, MK Dons, Swindon, Coventry all use Directors cash not supporter and other revenue streams to resource their clubs,. Bradford, if you didn't notice, got to the final of the League Cup and the Quarter Finals of the FA Cup in the last two seasons. Plus MK Dons reportedly got £2M for Baldock a couple of seasons ago, and this season sold Alli for £5M.

Answer enough?

What we need is not a millionaire owner. It's a mutil millionaire. And that's no offence to Dave Allen.

We currently have a multi millionaire owner already mate, who has infact ploughed multiples of those millions, his own millions btw into our club. Big emphasis on our, as CFC certainly aren't a club that are dear to DA's heart.

What we need is a multi millionaire who supports the club if we want to go down the City and Steve Lansdowne route, although I'm quite happy with the club being run as it is, as a self sustainable entity.

That being said if (highly unlikely) an investor wants to come in and throw money at it, without looking for a return, then I'd welcome it with open arms, as long as all was above board and proper.

The main concern for me is the 'missing' money. Just where has it gone?

[60s 70s Spireite]

Dave Wallers, on 25 April 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

We currently have a multi millionaire owner already mate, who has infact ploughed multiples of those millions, his own millions btw into our club. Big emphasis on our, as CFC certainly aren't a club that are dear to DA's heart.

What we need is a multi millionaire who supports the club if we want to go down the City and Steve Lansdowne route, although I'm quite happy with the club being run as it is, as a self sustainable entity.

That being said if (highly unlikely) an investor wants to come in and throw money at it, without looking for a return, then I'd welcome it with open arms, as long as all was above board and proper.

The main concern for me is the 'missing' money. Just where has it gone?

Allen is worth about a tenth of what Lansdowne is. See any rich list. Ergo he can afford to support his club to a far far greater extent. Mate.