[Sheffield Blue]

From the outside looking in I think you have lost all sense of perspective.

Your going to be safe nidtable. Last season you were in league two.

I get that your annoyed you sold Doyle... He off the mark for Cardiff yet?

Most clubs are selling clubs they have to be.. There are bigger (based on attendance's) clubs than you (and us) who can't break even. So to offset that you have to sell.

Chairmen, ceo's managers players.. They all come and go fans don't.. It means more to us.

All the while there is another game to Gabe that hope that buzz.

This post has been edited by Sheffield Blue: 18 February 2015 - 08:06 AM

[Exharboroughspireite]

Sheffield Blue, on 18 February 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

From the outside looking in I think you have lost all sense of perspective.

Your going to be safe nidtable. Last season you were in league two.

I get that your annoyed you sold Doyle... He off the mark for Cardiff yet?

Most clubs are selling clubs they have to be.. There are bigger (based on attendance's) clubs than you (and us) who can't break even. So to offset that you have to sell.

Chairmen, ceo's managers players.. They all come and go fans don't.. It means more to us.

All the while there is another game to Gabe that hope that buzz.

Thanks for this remarkable insight. Thank goodness a random supporter from a random club has come to tell us we are all silly and to stop complaining. Sorry headmaster.

[martatcross]

SixYardBox, on 18 February 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

This is all very childish stuff. You all need to step out of the fan box and look at the business from the outside. Firstly I reckon we'd have lost the last three with Doyle too. Secondly Doyle was off like a shot to secure 3x or 4x Wages. The club had no option. Thirdly the business model and main priority is to get the debt down thru player development and selling on. That's why Cookie is in the job because that's what he's good at. He's done it with Cooper from nothing, he's done it with Doyle from nothing, he'll do it with Raglan, Morsy, Carter, Harrison, Mani etc etc from nothing. Promotion to Championship is not an option until the debt is much lower as the club just wouldn't be able to afford the players required at that level to compete without a big risk of going bankrupt when they get relegated. I'd much rather be in league one with a club being prudently managed than say Rotherham who are blowing the budget. If in 4 years time we are ready I reckon the business will be sustainable for long term stay at Championship level. Of course this remains to be seen but that's the plan as far as I can see. Fans have to buy into this, support the business plan, enjoy some competitive football, watch some good young talent along the way, maybe a bit of joy in cups and get on with it.

why so sure that other players will command money out of the players you mention? can Cook keep bringing them in everytime the crown jewels are sold. How long before he gets P O'd or someone else sees his potential and we sell him too . You say the business will be at a more stable level in 4 years time' yet the off pitch activities i.e concerts lost money what if no one bids silly money for our players because they know Chesterfield sell on the cheap. The Chesterfield footballing public do not historically go to the game if things are not going well. If the home support dwindles to the 4000 mark then selling Doyle for peanuts will be swallowed up by the 3000 bums on seats budgeted for who are not there. ( There is nothing to say the sell ons will ever be activated and we have to wait for the second installment on Doyle) will come back and kick the board right up the seat of the pants.

This post has been edited by martatcross: 18 February 2015 - 08:29 AM

[CFC91]

Feel well and truly let down by the club - we have been well and truly sold down the river and have passed up the BEST chance of promotion we have had. Championship football in 5 years we were told? Doesn't look like that is what people really want.

The Doyle fee will now be swallowed up bridging the gap the drop of attendances will cause so in the short term it might look ok but long term selling Doyle could prove to be a financial disaster as well as a footballing one. A sustained play push, potential Wembley trip and potential season or two in the Championship would probably be worth a lot more too us in the long run than this 800k.

Well and truly fed up, I live 20 minutes from Rochdale on the train and I am seriously considering not bothering and just having a day on the beers in Manchester instead and this is from someone who has done Tuesday nights in Torquay/Carlisle, Friday nights in Plymouth and Swansea etc and I really am struggling to motivate myself to go Saturday if there is no ambition then surly my hopes of seeing us playing the Championship won't be fulfilled and as a result the best players I have seen in a town shirt in recent years (Morsy/Ryan/Clucas) will start to look elsewhere and we will be back to square one.

Really really hacked off by how things have turned out and how the board have let the chances slip - must be hard for the players knowing we will struggle for goals so much from now on in - the whole atmosphere has changes amongst fans and players.

Ashley Carson tweeted me last night saying "Still 15 games to go. Keep the faith" - I wish there was 5 left as we really could get dragged into a dogfight!

[Radders]

SixYardBox, on 18 February 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

This is all very childish stuff. You all need to step out of the fan box and look at the business from the outside. Firstly I reckon we'd have lost the last three with Doyle too. Secondly Doyle was off like a shot to secure 3x or 4x Wages. The club had no option. Thirdly the business model and main priority is to get the debt down thru player development and selling on. That's why Cookie is in the job because that's what he's good at. He's done it with Cooper from nothing, he's done it with Doyle from nothing, he'll do it with Raglan, Morsy, Carter, Harrison, Mani etc etc from nothing. Promotion to Championship is not an option until the debt is much lower as the club just wouldn't be able to afford the players required at that level to compete without a big risk of going bankrupt when they get relegated. I'd much rather be in league one with a club being prudently managed than say Rotherham who are blowing the budget. If in 4 years time we are ready I reckon the business will be sustainable for long term stay at Championship level. Of course this remains to be seen but that's the plan as far as I can see. Fans have to buy into this, support the business plan, enjoy some competitive football, watch some good young talent along the way, maybe a bit of joy in cups and get on with it.

But the above is exactly the opposite to what the FANS have been sold. The rhetoric used to get them to buy season tickets hasn't been one of selling players and staying in this division if we can. If they had said that then fine, I wouldn't be on here complaining, but they haven't - they have said exactly the opposite.
When we moved from Saltergate I was concerned about the debt we would have on the new ground. I was told not to worry about that as if the attendances were as they expected then it would be serviced in 5 years time. Well 5 years have passed and the debt is 3 million higher - despite the attendances being higher, despite two cup finals and 2 promotions - we have managed to accumulate 3 million more in debt! What makes you think that we can get rid of that debt in the next 4 years when we couldn't get rid of the last lot in 5?
Why is promotion not an option? What makes promotion so expensive? Yes you have to pay your players more but your attendances are higher, the fees you negotiate for advertising go up - it wouldn't bankrupt the club at all.
The real worry of course is, What happens when uncle Dave has had enough and realises he's never going to get his money back? Does he walk away - owning the ground and making us pay obscene amounts of rent on it.
No one is beyond criticism, and the handling of the club this season has been shambolic

[SixYardBox]

[quote name='Erwan dsihounou' timestamp='1424245438' post='1088119']
The day i go to watch a business is the day i pack up.

Go and watch Rugby because football is all about money and money management = business.

[ELTON 2020]

Erwan dsihounou, on 18 February 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

it seems to me that the sale of doyle was planned,so is cook not slightly to blame for the players that they decided to bring in,it has been stated that harrison has been on the radar for a while, well on what i have seen they must have been wearing jam jar bottom glasses when they scouted him,cook has also put faith in armand who from day one has been batting well out his league the guy is simply not good enough ,add into the mix that in reality if you play 4231 you dont really need big players you need mobile players,we have gone against everything that made us so good by signing the wrong type of player.

My view is you only sell a player if you've got others lined up. we hadn't or so it seems!

[azul]

SixYardBox, on 18 February 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

Go and watch Rugby because football is all about money and money management = business.

Tell that to Bournemouth

Lost £15M, about to fall foul of the FFP rules so the Russian put £8M in to reduce the debt

Now they are buying players for £3M and offering £5M for others on crowds of 10,000

What kind of money management/business is that

This post has been edited by azul: 18 February 2015 - 10:44 AM

[brianclose]

Elton John 1866, on 18 February 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

My view is you only sell a player if you've got others lined up. we hadn't or so it seems!

We did apparently, but as it went to the last day there wasn't time to sign him!

[ELTON 2020]

Radders, on 18 February 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

But the above is exactly the opposite to what the FANS have been sold. The rhetoric used to get them to buy season tickets hasn't been one of selling players and staying in this division if we can. If they had said that then fine, I wouldn't be on here complaining, but they haven't - they have said exactly the opposite.
When we moved from Saltergate I was concerned about the debt we would have on the new ground. I was told not to worry about that as if the attendances were as they expected then it would be serviced in 5 years time. Well 5 years have passed and the debt is 3 million higher - despite the attendances being higher, despite two cup finals and 2 promotions - we have managed to accumulate 3 million more in debt! What makes you think that we can get rid of that debt in the next 4 years when we couldn't get rid of the last lot in 5?
Why is promotion not an option? What makes promotion so expensive? Yes you have to pay your players more but your attendances are higher, the fees you negotiate for advertising go up - it wouldn't bankrupt the club at all.
The real worry of course is, What happens when uncle Dave has had enough and realises he's never going to get his money back? Does he walk away - owning the ground and making us pay obscene amounts of rent on it.
No one is beyond criticism, and the handling of the club this season has been shambolic

is this the case with every chairman? do they all want their money back, or do they simply write it off in goodwill?

brianclose, on 18 February 2015 - 10:45 AM, said:

We did apparently, but as it went to the last day there wasn't time to sign him!

.. and who were they/him?

[DIFH]

Maverick, on 17 February 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

Hubbard sacked McFarland and appointed Lee Richardson.

Our best chance in 35 years to prove to the people of Chesterfield that this club is serious, and what do they do.... Sell their prize asset for peanuts.

So all these young fans we have managed to get wearing town shirts with pride and who believed in CFC, we risk losing them again as once more It looks like we are slipping into football's quiet backwaters, reverting to type, as a small town team with no ambition.

Are we really about to embark on another period of the 'wilderness years', well it seems so to me.

Forget packing the Proact Dave, people needed something to trust and believe in but shortermism has once more, robbed us of that belief. It's going to be a long end to the season and I just hope we can hold on.

Here we go, we are without 4 major squad memebers who contributed to the success upto last month. Get over it, man up and hope that Cook can work his magic. Roberts will soon be back to contribute and hopefully our form will pick up with the new players proving their worth.

[brianclose]

Elton John 1866, on 18 February 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

is this the case with every chairman? do they all want their money back, or do they simply write it off in goodwill?


.. and who were they/him?

Turner didn't say, but inferred that we would have bought someone (in addition to Harrison) had the Doyle deal been concluded earlier.

[azul]

brianclose, on 18 February 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

Turner didn't say, but inferred that we would have bought someone (in addition to Harrison) had the Doyle deal been concluded earlier.

Maybes aye, maybes no, we are talking about what Turner is saying in interviews but anyway that should have been part of the decision whether or not to sell Doyle

[silver surfer]

SixYardBox, on 18 February 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

This is all very childish stuff. You all need to step out of the fan box and look at the business from the outside. Firstly I reckon we'd have lost the last three with Doyle too. Secondly Doyle was off like a shot to secure 3x or 4x Wages. The club had no option. Thirdly the business model and main priority is to get the debt down thru player development and selling on. That's why Cookie is in the job because that's what he's good at. He's done it with Cooper from nothing, he's done it with Doyle from nothing, he'll do it with Raglan, Morsy, Carter, Harrison, Mani etc etc from nothing. Promotion to Championship is not an option until the debt is much lower as the club just wouldn't be able to afford the players required at that level to compete without a big risk of going bankrupt when they get relegated. I'd much rather be in league one with a club being prudently managed than say Rotherham who are blowing the budget. If in 4 years time we are ready I reckon the business will be sustainable for long term stay at Championship level. Of course this remains to be seen but that's the plan as far as I can see. Fans have to buy into this, support the business plan, enjoy some competitive football, watch some good young talent along the way, maybe a bit of joy in cups and get on with it.

Very good post mate. The only flaw is about Doyle. Make that 6-7 times wages and that`s why HE wanted to go! Can you blame him. I know I would have gone. If he`s a complete failure he has set himself and his family up for life. He HAD to take that opening. Even though I was gutted to see him go, I think most people knew it was coming.

[SixYardBox]

martatcross, on 18 February 2015 - 08:27 AM, said:

why so sure that other players will command money out of the players you mention? can Cook keep bringing them in everytime the crown jewels are sold. How long before he gets P O'd or someone else sees his potential and we sell him too . You say the business will be at a more stable level in 4 years time' yet the off pitch activities i.e concerts lost money what if no one bids silly money for our players because they know Chesterfield sell on the cheap. The Chesterfield footballing public do not historically go to the game if things are not going well. If the home support dwindles to the 4000 mark then selling Doyle for peanuts will be swallowed up by the 3000 bums on seats budgeted for who are not there. ( There is nothing to say the sell ons will ever be activated and we have to wait for the second installment on Doyle) will come back and kick the board right up the seat of the pants.

I used those players as an example hence the etc etc.

Cook has just signed an extension to his contract hasn't he. He has bought into the plan and has a good relationship with the owner and Chris Turner so he has financial security as far as is reasonably possible for a football manager.

The club is servicing the debt, which means paying the interest. The capital can only be repaid by selling assets which in this case are the players who generate interest from the likes of Cardiff.

Paul Cook has to turn out a competitive team to help keep bums on seats, of course that is part of his remit. But hey, we've lost 3 games on the spin, it happens. It doesn't mean it's the end of the world. Yes we need to get back on track but it won't be easy starting at Rochdale and with Oldham, Bradford etc away to come and Sheff Utd last match. Looking at it 3 weeks ago, mid table was predictable to the realist.

[SixYardBox]

azul, on 18 February 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

Tell that to Bournemouth

Lost £15M, about to fall foul of the FFP rules so the Russian put £8M in to reduce the debt

Now they are buying players for £3M and offering £5M for others on crowds of 10,000

What kind of money management/business is that

Precisely! We are not being managed like Bournemouth. I'm confused why you attached your reply to my comment. Who wants to support a club owned by a Russian, me duck?

This post has been edited by SixYardBox: 18 February 2015 - 01:51 PM

[SixYardBox]

Radders, on 18 February 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

But the above is exactly the opposite to what the FANS have been sold. The rhetoric used to get them to buy season tickets hasn't been one of selling players and staying in this division if we can. If they had said that then fine, I wouldn't be on here complaining, but they haven't - they have said exactly the opposite.
When we moved from Saltergate I was concerned about the debt we would have on the new ground. I was told not to worry about that as if the attendances were as they expected then it would be serviced in 5 years time. Well 5 years have passed and the debt is 3 million higher - despite the attendances being higher, despite two cup finals and 2 promotions - we have managed to accumulate 3 million more in debt! What makes you think that we can get rid of that debt in the next 4 years when we couldn't get rid of the last lot in 5?
Why is promotion not an option? What makes promotion so expensive? Yes you have to pay your players more but your attendances are higher, the fees you negotiate for advertising go up - it wouldn't bankrupt the club at all.
The real worry of course is, What happens when uncle Dave has had enough and realises he's never going to get his money back? Does he walk away - owning the ground and making us pay obscene amounts of rent on it.
No one is beyond criticism, and the handling of the club this season has been shambolic

Servicing a debt means meeting the interest, not repaying the capital. Income being generated through various lines is just covering the interest and covering the costs of running the club inc playing budget.

I don't recall the club selling season tickets on the back of getting promoted to the championship being a vision for this season?

The 5 year plan was obviously scuppered by the relegation and the Sheridan/Wright Saga. So id' say its more 7 or 8 years from Stadium build. remember there'll be no more funds from Dave Allen. he's in deep enough so its either prudent management or another wealthy individual foolish enough to get involved in a football club with his hard earned cash.

[Tha Knows...]

SixYardBox, on 18 February 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

Precisely! We are not being managed like Bournemouth. I'm confused why you attached your reply to my comment. Who wants to support a club owned by a Russian, me duck?

Doesnt matter providing they run the club correctly. Ukrainian would be ok too.

[DIFH]

Spire-Power, on 18 February 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

Doesnt matter providing they run the club correctly. Ukrainian would be ok too.

Don't tell that to Pompey fans.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

SixYardBox, on 18 February 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

This is all very childish stuff. You all need to step out of the fan box and look at the business from the outside. Firstly I reckon we'd have lost the last three with Doyle too. Secondly Doyle was off like a shot to secure 3x or 4x Wages. The club had no option. Thirdly the business model and main priority is to get the debt down thru player development and selling on. That's why Cookie is in the job because that's what he's good at. He's done it with Cooper from nothing, he's done it with Doyle from nothing, he'll do it with Raglan, Morsy, Carter, Harrison, Mani etc etc from nothing. Promotion to Championship is not an option until the debt is much lower as the club just wouldn't be able to afford the players required at that level to compete without a big risk of going bankrupt when they get relegated. I'd much rather be in league one with a club being prudently managed than say Rotherham who are blowing the budget. If in 4 years time we are ready I reckon the business will be sustainable for long term stay at Championship level. Of course this remains to be seen but that's the plan as far as I can see. Fans have to buy into this, support the business plan, enjoy some competitive football, watch some good young talent along the way, maybe a bit of joy in cups and get on with it.

1. No need for the sanctimonious 'childish' and 'you need to get out of the fan box' stuff. Remove the emotional attachment and we're just customers treating Town like a cinema or restaurant.

2. Folk can speculate all they want, but the harsh truth is no Town player has scored from open play since Doyle left.

3. There's no evidence to suggest Doyle was 'off like a shot' simply to increase his wages. However we did see a concerted narrative discussing his potential transfer from CFC representatives and their friends in the media.

4. Of course the Club had an option. 'Teflon' himself said there was no pressure to sell whilst the player was only eight months into a two year contract. Don't forget the Cooper money, extra payments from the FL for being in L1, a seven thousand average and our mini Cup run, either. And hey, let's remember the debt is predominantly owed to the Board and Chairman, meaning it's their decision to prioritise repayment over possible success.

5. Cooper cost a significant fee, Carter is a Wolves player, Harrison is twenty seven, and as for Dieseruvwe, well, you're being very optimistic based on very little game time.

6. Promotion not an option? What the Hell are you on about! What's the point of anyone turning out every week if that's the case?! Of course promotion is an option - should we have said the same last season? By the way, I agree Town should be prudently managed; but which part of a million-plus loss despite winning the division, visiting Wembley and hosting high profile gigs says 'prudent' to you?

7. I'd say the majority of Town fans 'buy into' the need to balance expectations, ambition and financial reality. I just hope Dave Allen 'buys into' the fact that flogging the country's top scorer when there was no pressing need will impact upon results and attendances.

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 18 February 2015 - 09:16 PM