[The Earl of Chesterfield]

First it's only fair to thank those who sat at the top table and took what were, on many occasions, some pretty blunt views on the chin.

Second it's only fair to also thank them for at least an attempt at candour and humility. Sure there was bluff, bluster and evasion - infact it was like pulling rotten teeth at times - yet they did eventually confirm what many had suspected.

Infact Ashley Carson not only apologised for what we've spent months witnessing, but agreed a 'thankyou' was owed to this messageboard for exposing certain issues.

The first question was to the CEO and asked why he'd claimed the Development School (DS) was making a 'great profit' when tens of thousands of losses were revealed only weeks later?

'Because that's what Liam Sutcliffe told me' was his response.

He then went into some obviously rehearsed diatribe about how Sutcliffe had been introduced by a Town fan (who, by the way, I happen to know was only seeking to help CFC and is utterly blameless in subsequent events), Dave Bentley had agreed the idea of the DS was a 'no brainer' (and no quips involving CT and 'no brains', thankyou very much...), he'd been pushed, very reluctantly into becoming involved and everything had been fine until the totally beyond reproach Alan Walters left and Sutcliffe was left to his own devices.

Turner and Carson agreed it'd deteriorated into the chaotic and hugely damaging shambles it became because of Sutcliffe. Indeed it was openly stated he'd lied. When quizzed about his responsibility as a director - which I believe imposes a legal requirement to ensure the business is run to high standards - Turner said he'd simply been too busy to monitor events. Then when asked why no action had been taken despite month after month of scandals, many of which featured in both the local and national media, he repeated that he'd simply taken Sutcliffe's word there were no problems (at this point I'd remind folks that issues were first raised by 'Spireitenag' early in the year and Turner gave a number of interviews denying or seeking to legitimise such behaviour).

Ashley Carson interjected saying how they'd finally realised Sutcliffe was misleading them and were forced to loan the enterprise tens of thousands - they supposedly expected to lose - in a bid to repay debts. Members of the audience then declared that, despite AC, CT and LS's public assurances to the contrary, several people were still to receive what they were owed. CT and AC asked for names to be submitted so they might do so, once more blaming Sutcliffe's substandard accounting for the error. They also insisted the CCJ's had been paid, though that was challenged by an audience member who'd checked that very morning.

All this led to a very simple question: why had they continued to tolerate someone even they'd admitted was an incompetent liar on Sheff Road? Apparently they thought his abilities as a coach and the thousands the DS had supposedly saved CFC in coaching, scouting and accommodation costs outweighed the impact his presence had had. Though AC did confirm it'd hurt the football club's image and finances. For what it's worth Sutcliffe is still at the bailed-out DS, now labelled 'FBT', the club still maintain a relationship that it's hoped will elicit players, but AC will endeavour to cut all other ties including use of the CFC badge. Money from CFC to the DS? There was some sucking of teeth and looking thoughtfully skywards at that question, but when pressed the top table collectively said ''No'.

Time will tell, I guess.

Anyway, this led into the next 'main' question which examined Chris Turner's record in terms of those with whom he associates himself. The failed Wednesday takeover; his long running courtship of Alnassar; Bingham's appearance; Kevin 'Rafflegate' Fitzgerald and, of course, the former non league player Sutcliffe. Chris Turner said' Oh, you don't want investment, then'. It didn't work. Then he suggested Alnassar and his entourage had only visited occasionally enjoying very limited hospitality. He was reminded that staff and lounge dwellers could tell a different story. 'Was he a legitimate potential investor or not?', CT was pressed. The CEO's reaction was one of irritation then acceptance. He's clearly very wounded by the scrutiny 'Bob's Board' members have placed upon his actions, suggesting we're somehow driving people away. Yet he then admitted Alnassar was unsuitable and the Club had been forced to abruptly terminate the relationship.

It was a similar story with Bingham, almost saying that his background was nothing out of the ordinary in football circles and the sixty thousand CFC had received for advertising his 'company' had been checked and cleared by the bank. However Ashley Carson then said he'd felt uncomfortable by what'd been revealed by forum members so CFC again terminated the relationship. They meanwhile seemed oblivious to any alleged links between Bingham and Liam Graham (oh, by the way, I didn't catch what Turner said when asked why that player spent several months playing as a 'ringer'. Hopefully someone else can clarify).

Fitzgerald? We were told he'd arrived with an excellent reference and done a terrific job of raising funds. CT then stated, on his kid's lives, he knew nothing of the faked raffle. Yet another occasion he'd been deceived. Despite Fitzgerald being answerable to the CEO who attended the pre-season tour in question, the raffle hadn't even been mentioned until the brown stuff hit the fans. Those comments were echoed, as one, by all the top table. Part of the denial was the CEO saying he'd been against fans being involved at all, pre-season tours being all about the players. He was then reminded of the offer to more affluent Town fans to not only take part in the tour, but spend part of it socialising and golfing with him.

Y'know, there came a moment in all this that, when once again challenged over his poor judgement, Chris Turner appeared a defeated man. He slumped back in his chair and, in a flat, monotone voice just agreed: 'Yeah. I've lousy judgement'. He looked like a school kid who'd run out of excuses being disciplined by a teacher. Part of me felt slightly sorry for him, though another wondered if it was just adolescent sarcasm.

That kinda continued when the question of vetting all these characters arose. By his own admission CT had accepted them at face value, going on to add 'Why don't you lot ('Bob's Board' members who'd clearly got under his skin) do the job if it's so easy?'. I'll allow folk to draw their own conclusions.

PS: it appeared Fitzgerald received some sort of severance package and is now working at a company linked to one of those fronting 'FBT'. The same 'FBT' who're fifty-fifty over the road.

Next up, the Club's finances. In other words where's the money gone. Well I'd love to be able to say there was good news, here, an explanation of exactly that alongside a plan to deal with the debt. However that just wasn't the case. We were told the wage bill has remained pretty consistent as have the million-plus overheads. Yet despite extended prompts including facts and figures, numerous questions referring to the accounts from people who know what they're talking about, there was no revelatory response. Chesterfield FC is set to lose a million and a half this financial year, no one has come up with a plan to change that - despite what we're told are regular meetings and hours spent going through the books, and the only thing between the Club and bankruptcy is player sales and a benevolent chairman. Be afraid...very afraid.

To his credit Ashley Carson seemed to admit sponsorship was well down - with a telling 'Hmmm...' when the new commercial guy's name was brought up - as part of his wider acceptance that CFC's lousy PR was responsible. Although he told a different tale on ST's, only zero point-five percent down. He said.

Turning to the team CT put up a defiant defence of Saunders, focussing on his 'success' at Wrexham, Donny and Crawley (he nearly kept them up) and him being somehow brave to take over 'already down' Donny and Wolves when challenged over his relegation record. There was also an admission that some poor players had been signed. Make no mistake - and I wanna be fully magnanimous, here - when talking football Chris Turner can make a credible case. He has experience in the game with which few on here can argue and, again in the interest of fairness, might have elicited excellent deals for players sold. Unfortunately the top table focus upon that rather than blame his business skills for necessitating those sales.

Which is probably why they voted for our supposedly 'one of the lowest paid CEO's in the league' to receive a percentage of income from exits. As they did Cook.

Other stuff.

Dave Allen is hoping the Board will agree to waive some of, or all interest payments on their loans. That totals hundreds of pounds per annum to CFC. A truly altruistic act if accepted.

When Town's financial performance was compared to Burton, Rochdale and Walsall's CT leapt forward with some glee saying 'I thought you'd mention them'. He spoke of their far larger hospitality facilities and advertising boards that generated huge amounts. Thing is a couple of those qualified to do so pointed out they've still a smaller turnover than us yet are performing much better with it.

The top table could only offer a wry 'It's up to the Chairman' when asked about squad movement in January. My take: DA is, as reputation suggests, a very strong minded, stubborn, difficult and even caustic bloke. But for all his faults he knows fans need a reason to attend.

There were a few more enquiries regarding ticketing and the like but I'll allow others to cover those.

So, there we are. That's more or less what I can remember. Apologies if I've got excerpts wrong but this is all just my interpretation. If anyone expected blood and bodies I'm sorry; you're gonna be disappointed. That said Chris Turner and, to a lesser extent Ashley Carson were put on the ropes for extended periods. On the other hand I guess they got away without any knockout blows being landed. There's still no full disclosure and they're not going anywhere soon.

For what it's worth everyone shook hands at the end of the evening and CT accepted, despite his obvious displeasure at being targeted as he is, that it goes with the job. As Ashley Carson accepted - at face value, anyway - that lousy PR is the result of lousy behaviour. I respect them for that.

One final thing, too. Those representing 'Bob's Board' declined the offer of free tickets to a man. Adding that they should go to under-privileged kids if CFC have them to spare.

I hope there'll be no repeat of last night - because I hope there'll be no need for a repeat of last night.

Can't say I'm optimistic, though...

EDIT: summat I've just remembered. When asked why the Club is replacing it's IT provider AC confirmed his association with the current one, which also covers requirements at his 'other job' as had been rumoured.

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 10 November 2016 - 05:20 PM

[Spireite88]

Will DA also be also be waiving his interest payments then, hmmmm I think he should match £ for £ what other board members accept not to receive

[Spireite-Karl]

I've only just started reading your report of the night Chris and peed myself laughing when I got to this bit...

The first question was to the CEO and asked why he'd claimed the Development School (DS) was making a 'great profit' when tens of thousands of losses were revealed only weeks later?

'Because that's what Liam Sutcliffe told me' was his response.

Now, I've stopped laughing I'm very alarmed and worried! I mean, WTF is the bloke doing? Certainly not being a CEO!!

[Spireite88]

Also considering all the bad business CT has done would he consider accepting no 5% transfer fee payment in order to help out the club when money is so tight anyway.

[jonnythespireite]

MDCCCLXVI, on 10 November 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

First it's only fair to thank those who sat at the top table and took what were, on many occasions, some pretty blunt views on the chin.

Second it's only fair to also thank them for at least an attempt at candour and humility. Sure there was bluff, bluster and evasion - infact it was like pulling rotten teeth at times - yet they did eventually confirm what many had suspected.

Infact Ashley Carson not only apologised for what we've spent months witnessing, but agreed a 'thankyou' was owed to this messageboard for exposing certain issues.

The first question was to the CEO and asked why he'd claimed the Development School (DS) was making a 'great profit' when tens of thousands of losses were revealed only weeks later?

'Because that's what Liam Sutcliffe told me' was his response.

He then went into some obviously rehearsed diatribe about how Sutcliffe had been introduced by a Town fan (who, by the way, I happen to know was only seeking to help CFC and is utterly blameless in subsequent events), Dave Bentley had agreed the idea of the DS was a 'no brainer' (and no quips involving CT and 'no brains', thankyou very much...), he'd been pushed, very reluctantly into becoming involved and everything had been fine until the totally beyond reproach Alan Walters left and Sutcliffe was left to his own devices.

Turner and Carson agreed it'd deteriorated into the chaotic and hugely damaging shambles it became because of Sutcliffe. Indeed it was openly stated he'd lied. When quizzed about his responsibility as a director - which I believe imposes a legal requirement to ensure the business is run to high standards - Turner said he'd simply been too busy to monitor events. Then when asked why no action had been taken despite month after month of scandals, many of which featured in both the local and national media, he repeated that he'd simply taken Sutcliffe's word there were no problems (at this point I'd remind folks that issues were first raised by 'Spireitenag' early in the year and Turner gave a number of interviews denying or seeking to legitimise such behaviour).

Ashley Carson interjected saying how they'd finally realised Sutcliffe was misleading them and were forced to loan the enterprise tens of thousands - they supposedly expected to lose - in a bid to repay debts. Members of the audience then declared that, despite AC, CT and LS's public assurances to the contrary, several people were still to receive what they were owed. CT and AC asked for names to be submitted so they might do so, once more blaming Sutcliffe's substandard accounting for the error. They also insisted the CCJ's had been paid, though that was challenged by an audience member who'd checked that very morning.

All this led to a very simple question: why had they continued to tolerate someone even they'd admitted was an incompetent liar on Sheff Road? Apparently they thought his abilities as a coach and the thousands the DS had supposedly saved CFC in coaching, scouting and accommodation costs outweighed the impact his presence had had. Though AC did confirm it'd hurt the football club's image and finances. For what it's worth Sutcliffe is still at the bailed out DS, now labelled 'FBT', the club still maintain a relationship that it's hoped will elicit players, but AC will endeavour to cut all other ties including use of the CFC badge. Money from CFC to the DS? There was some sucking of teeth and looking thoughtfully skywards at that question, but when pressed the top table collectively said ''No'.

Time will tell, I guess.

Anyway, this led into the next 'main' question which examined Chris Turner's record in terms of those with whom he associates himself. The failed Wednesday takeover; his long running courtship of Alnassar; Bingham's appearance; Kevin 'Rafflegate' Fitzgerald and, of course, the former non league player Sutcliffe. Chris Turner said' Oh, you don't want investment, then'. It didn't work. Then he suggested Alnassar and his entourage had only visited occasionally enjoying very limited hospitality. He was reminded that staff and lounge dwellers could tell a different story. 'Was he a legitimate potential investor or not?', CT was pressed. The CEO's reaction was one of irritation then acceptance. He's clearly very wounded by the scrutiny 'Bob's Board' members have placed upon his actions, suggesting we're somehow driving people away. Yet he then admitted Alnassar was unsuitable and the Club had been forced to abruptly terminate the relationship.

It was a similar story with Bingham, almost saying that his background was nothing out of the ordinary in football circles and the sixty thousand CFC had received for advertising his 'company' had been checked and cleared by the bank. However Ashley Carson then said he'd felt uncomfortable by what'd been revealed by forum members so CFC again terminated the relationship. They meanwhile seemed oblivious to any alleged links between Bingham and Liam Graham (oh, by the way, I didn't catch what Turner said when asked why that player spent several months playing as a 'ringer'. Hopefully someone else can clarify).

Fitzgerald? We were told he'd arrived with a excellent reference and done a terrific job of raising funds. CT then stated, on his kid's lives, he knew nothing of the faked raffle. Yet another occasion he'd been deceived. Despite Fitzgerald being answerable to the CEO who attended the pre-season tour in question, the raffle hadn't even been mentioned until the brown stuff hit the fans. Those comments were echoed, as one, by all the top table. Part of the denial was the CEO saying he'd been against fans being involved at all, pre-season tours being all about the players. He was then reminded of the offer to more affluent Town fans to not only take part in the tour, but spend part of it socialising and golfing with him.

Y'know, there came a moment in all this that, when once again challenged over his poor judgement, Chris Turner appeared a defeated man. He slumped back in his chair and, in a flat, monotone voice just agreed: 'Yeah. I've lousy judgement'. He looked like a school kid who'd run out of excuses being disciplined by a teacher. Part of me felt slightly sorry for him, though another wondered if it was just adolescent sarcasm.

That kinda continued when the question of vetting all these characters arose. By his own admission CT had accepted them at face value, going on to add 'Why don't you lot ('Bob's Board' members who'd clearly got under his skin) do the job if it's so easy?'. I'll allow folk to draw their own conclusions.

PS: it appeared Fitzgerald received some sort of severance package and is now working at a company linked to one of those fronting 'FBT'. The same 'FBT' who're fifty-fifty over the road.

Next up, the Club's finances. In other words where's the money gone. Well I'd love to be able to say there was good news, here, an explanation of exactly that alongside a plan to deal with the debt. However that just wasn't the case. We were told the wage bill has remained pretty consistent as have the million-plus overheads. Yet despite extended prompts including facts and figures, numerous questions referring to the accounts from people who know what they're talking about, there was no revelatory response. Chesterfield FC is set to lose a million and a half this financial year, no one has come up with a plan to change that - despite what we're told are regular meetings and hours spent going through the books, and the only thing between the Club and bankruptcy is player sales and a benevolent chairman. Be afraid...very afraid.

To his credit Ashley Carson seemed to admit sponsorship was well down - with a telling 'Hmmm...' when the new commercial guy's name was brought up - as part of his wider acceptance that CFC's lousy PR was responsible. Although he told a different tale on ST's, only zero point-five percent down. He said.

Turning to the team CT put up a defiant defence of Saunders, focussing on his 'success' at Wrexham, Donny and Crawley (he nearly kept them up) and him being somehow brave to take over 'already down' Donny and Wolves when challenged over his relegation record. There was also an admission that some poor players had been signed. Make no mistake - and I wanna be fully magnanimous, here - when talking football Chris Turner can make a credible case. He has experience in the game with which few on here can argue and, again in the interest of fairness, might have elicited excellent deals for players sold. Unfortunately the top table focus upon that rather than blame his business skills for necessitating those sales.

Which is probably why they voted for our supposedly 'one of the lowest paid CEO's in the league' to receive a percentage of income from exits. As they did Cook.

Other stuff.

Dave Allen is hoping the Board will agree to waive some of, or all interest payments on their loans. That totals hundreds of pounds per annum to CFC. A truly altruistic act if accepted.

When Town's financial performance was compared to Burton, Rochdale and Walsall's CT leapt forward with some glee saying 'I thought you'd mention them'. He spoke of their far larger hospitality facilities and advertising boards that generated huge amounts. Thing is a couple of those qualified to do so pointed out they've still a smaller turnover than us yet are performing much better with it.

The top table could only offer a wry 'It's up to the Chairman' when asked about squad movement in January. My take: DA is, as reputation suggests, a very strong minded, stubborn, difficult and even caustic bloke. But for all his faults he knows fans need a reason to attend.

There were a few more enquiries regarding ticketing and the like but I'll allow others to cover those.

So, there we are. That's more or less what I can remember. Apologies if I've got excerpts wrong but this is all just my interpretation. If anyone expected blood and bodies I'm sorry; you're gonna be disappointed. That said Chris Turner and, to a lesser extent Ashley Carson were put on the ropes for extended periods. On the other hand I guess they got away without any knockout blows being landed. There's still no full disclosure and they're not going anywhere soon.

For what it's worth everyone shook hands at the end of the evening and CT accepted, despite his obvious displeasure at being targeted as he is, that it goes with the job. As Ashley Carson accepted - at face value, anyway - that lousy PR is the result of lousy behaviour. I respect them for that.

One final thing, too. Those representing 'Bob's Board' declined the offer of free tickets to a man. Adding that they should go to under-privileged kids if CFC have them to spare.

I hope there'll be no repeat of last night - because I hope there'll be no need for a repeat of last night.

Can't say I'm optimistic, though...

EDIT: summat I've just remembered. When asked why the Club is replacing it's IT provider AC confirmed his association with the current one, which also covers requirements at his 'other job' as had been rumoured.

Thanks Chris. The fact that them saying we are set to lose 1.5 m this year without any plan to reverse it is extremely worrying. Did anyone ask what the difference between the paying budget wages and total wages was?

This post has been edited by jonnythespireite: 10 November 2016 - 05:01 PM

[boot]

Spireite88, on 10 November 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

Also considering all the bad business CT has done would he consider accepting no 5% transfer fee payment in order to help out the club when money is so tight anyway.

I had the same thought. He would gain some respect for that - the club can't afford it and it's on his watch.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Spireite88, on 10 November 2016 - 04:44 PM, said:

Will DA also be also be waiving his interest payments then, hmmmm I think he should match £ for £ what other board members accept not to receive

Don't wanna say too much as I'm sure folk far better qualified than I will post details later.

But in the interest of fairness we were told Chris Turner has declined to receive his percentage to this point.

[Stockholm Spireite]

MDCCCLXVI, on 10 November 2016 - 05:13 PM, said:

But in the interest of fairness we were told Chris Turner has declined to receive his percentage to this point.

Is that because the profits don't cover the fee he is due?

Whilst I'm asking out loud, I'm not expecting you to respond.

[Westbars Spireite]

I'm concerned that the major issue (unexplained costs) still seems a mystery to those who should know.

[SpireiteFitzy]

Can't an external auditor be brought in to break down the clubs finances to show those in charge where the holes in the business are?

[ELTON 2020]

Spireite88, on 10 November 2016 - 04:44 PM, said:

Will DA also be also be waiving his interest payments then, hmmmm I think he should match £ for £ what other board members accept not to receive

I stand to be corrected but there appears to be a number of other clubs eg Oldham whose "investors" only want their money back/interest payments - one or even both - if the club reach higher Championship or Premiership status - if correct how about it guys??

Westbars Spireite, on 10 November 2016 - 05:34 PM, said:

I'm concerned that the major issue (unexplained costs) still seems a mystery to those who should know.

Allen's been banging on about poor attendances for a few years. 9000 average gates would just wipe out the losses.

[jonnythespireite]

SpireiteFitzy, on 10 November 2016 - 05:41 PM, said:

Can't an external auditor be brought in to break down the clubs finances to show those in charge where the holes in the business are?

That is exactly what is needed. The club should have a full time financial controller too. I wonder why it hasn't already got one? Hmmm.....

[ELTON 2020]

jonnythespireite, on 10 November 2016 - 06:02 PM, said:

That is exactly what is needed. The club should have a full time financial controller too. I wonder why it hasn't already got one? Hmmm.....

Isn't that the CEO? It used to be Barrie Hubbard type accounting personnel at the old club. I mean a CEO is a big role with a myriad of responsibilities.

[spireitedave]

Elton John 1866, on 10 November 2016 - 06:02 PM, said:

I stand to be corrected but there appears to be a number of other clubs eg Oldham whose "investors" only want their money back/interest payments - one or even both - if the club reach higher Championship or Premiership status - if correct how about it guys??


Allen's been banging on about poor attendances for a few years. 9000 average gates would just wipe out the losses.

[Johnnyspireite7]

Elton John 1866, on 10 November 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

Isn't that the CEO? It used to be Barrie Hubbard type accounting personnel at the old club. I mean a CEO is a big role with a myriad of responsibilities.

And the current incumbent is either completely incompetent or out of his depth!

[spireitedave]

Oldham owners have sold the land around Boundary Park to their personal gain.Dont hold them us a shining example.aThey also spent a fortune trying to build a new ground on land that belonged to a charity - had anyone bothered to check !

[Bobby Darling]

MDCCCLXVI, on 10 November 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

First it's only fair to thank those who sat at the top table and took what were, on many occasions, some pretty blunt views on the chin.

Second it's only fair to also thank them for at least an attempt at candour and humility. Sure there was bluff, bluster and evasion - infact it was like pulling rotten teeth at times - yet they did eventually confirm what many had suspected.

Infact Ashley Carson not only apologised for what we've spent months witnessing, but agreed a 'thankyou' was owed to this messageboard for exposing certain issues.

The first question was to the CEO and asked why he'd claimed the Development School (DS) was making a 'great profit' when tens of thousands of losses were revealed only weeks later?

'Because that's what Liam Sutcliffe told me' was his response.

He then went into some obviously rehearsed diatribe about how Sutcliffe had been introduced by a Town fan (who, by the way, I happen to know was only seeking to help CFC and is utterly blameless in subsequent events), Dave Bentley had agreed the idea of the DS was a 'no brainer' (and no quips involving CT and 'no brains', thankyou very much...), he'd been pushed, very reluctantly into becoming involved and everything had been fine until the totally beyond reproach Alan Walters left and Sutcliffe was left to his own devices.

Turner and Carson agreed it'd deteriorated into the chaotic and hugely damaging shambles it became because of Sutcliffe. Indeed it was openly stated he'd lied. When quizzed about his responsibility as a director - which I believe imposes a legal requirement to ensure the business is run to high standards - Turner said he'd simply been too busy to monitor events. Then when asked why no action had been taken despite month after month of scandals, many of which featured in both the local and national media, he repeated that he'd simply taken Sutcliffe's word there were no problems (at this point I'd remind folks that issues were first raised by 'Spireitenag' early in the year and Turner gave a number of interviews denying or seeking to legitimise such behaviour).

Ashley Carson interjected saying how they'd finally realised Sutcliffe was misleading them and were forced to loan the enterprise tens of thousands - they supposedly expected to lose - in a bid to repay debts. Members of the audience then declared that, despite AC, CT and LS's public assurances to the contrary, several people were still to receive what they were owed. CT and AC asked for names to be submitted so they might do so, once more blaming Sutcliffe's substandard accounting for the error. They also insisted the CCJ's had been paid, though that was challenged by an audience member who'd checked that very morning.

All this led to a very simple question: why had they continued to tolerate someone even they'd admitted was an incompetent liar on Sheff Road? Apparently they thought his abilities as a coach and the thousands the DS had supposedly saved CFC in coaching, scouting and accommodation costs outweighed the impact his presence had had. Though AC did confirm it'd hurt the football club's image and finances. For what it's worth Sutcliffe is still at the bailed-out DS, now labelled 'FBT', the club still maintain a relationship that it's hoped will elicit players, but AC will endeavour to cut all other ties including use of the CFC badge. Money from CFC to the DS? There was some sucking of teeth and looking thoughtfully skywards at that question, but when pressed the top table collectively said ''No'.

Time will tell, I guess.

Anyway, this led into the next 'main' question which examined Chris Turner's record in terms of those with whom he associates himself. The failed Wednesday takeover; his long running courtship of Alnassar; Bingham's appearance; Kevin 'Rafflegate' Fitzgerald and, of course, the former non league player Sutcliffe. Chris Turner said' Oh, you don't want investment, then'. It didn't work. Then he suggested Alnassar and his entourage had only visited occasionally enjoying very limited hospitality. He was reminded that staff and lounge dwellers could tell a different story. 'Was he a legitimate potential investor or not?', CT was pressed. The CEO's reaction was one of irritation then acceptance. He's clearly very wounded by the scrutiny 'Bob's Board' members have placed upon his actions, suggesting we're somehow driving people away. Yet he then admitted Alnassar was unsuitable and the Club had been forced to abruptly terminate the relationship.

It was a similar story with Bingham, almost saying that his background was nothing out of the ordinary in football circles and the sixty thousand CFC had received for advertising his 'company' had been checked and cleared by the bank. However Ashley Carson then said he'd felt uncomfortable by what'd been revealed by forum members so CFC again terminated the relationship. They meanwhile seemed oblivious to any alleged links between Bingham and Liam Graham (oh, by the way, I didn't catch what Turner said when asked why that player spent several months playing as a 'ringer'. Hopefully someone else can clarify).

Fitzgerald? We were told he'd arrived with an excellent reference and done a terrific job of raising funds. CT then stated, on his kid's lives, he knew nothing of the faked raffle. Yet another occasion he'd been deceived. Despite Fitzgerald being answerable to the CEO who attended the pre-season tour in question, the raffle hadn't even been mentioned until the brown stuff hit the fans. Those comments were echoed, as one, by all the top table. Part of the denial was the CEO saying he'd been against fans being involved at all, pre-season tours being all about the players. He was then reminded of the offer to more affluent Town fans to not only take part in the tour, but spend part of it socialising and golfing with him.

Y'know, there came a moment in all this that, when once again challenged over his poor judgement, Chris Turner appeared a defeated man. He slumped back in his chair and, in a flat, monotone voice just agreed: 'Yeah. I've lousy judgement'. He looked like a school kid who'd run out of excuses being disciplined by a teacher. Part of me felt slightly sorry for him, though another wondered if it was just adolescent sarcasm.

That kinda continued when the question of vetting all these characters arose. By his own admission CT had accepted them at face value, going on to add 'Why don't you lot ('Bob's Board' members who'd clearly got under his skin) do the job if it's so easy?'. I'll allow folk to draw their own conclusions.

PS: it appeared Fitzgerald received some sort of severance package and is now working at a company linked to one of those fronting 'FBT'. The same 'FBT' who're fifty-fifty over the road.

Next up, the Club's finances. In other words where's the money gone. Well I'd love to be able to say there was good news, here, an explanation of exactly that alongside a plan to deal with the debt. However that just wasn't the case. We were told the wage bill has remained pretty consistent as have the million-plus overheads. Yet despite extended prompts including facts and figures, numerous questions referring to the accounts from people who know what they're talking about, there was no revelatory response. Chesterfield FC is set to lose a million and a half this financial year, no one has come up with a plan to change that - despite what we're told are regular meetings and hours spent going through the books, and the only thing between the Club and bankruptcy is player sales and a benevolent chairman. Be afraid...very afraid.

To his credit Ashley Carson seemed to admit sponsorship was well down - with a telling 'Hmmm...' when the new commercial guy's name was brought up - as part of his wider acceptance that CFC's lousy PR was responsible. Although he told a different tale on ST's, only zero point-five percent down. He said.

Turning to the team CT put up a defiant defence of Saunders, focussing on his 'success' at Wrexham, Donny and Crawley (he nearly kept them up) and him being somehow brave to take over 'already down' Donny and Wolves when challenged over his relegation record. There was also an admission that some poor players had been signed. Make no mistake - and I wanna be fully magnanimous, here - when talking football Chris Turner can make a credible case. He has experience in the game with which few on here can argue and, again in the interest of fairness, might have elicited excellent deals for players sold. Unfortunately the top table focus upon that rather than blame his business skills for necessitating those sales.

Which is probably why they voted for our supposedly 'one of the lowest paid CEO's in the league' to receive a percentage of income from exits. As they did Cook.

Other stuff.

Dave Allen is hoping the Board will agree to waive some of, or all interest payments on their loans. That totals hundreds of pounds per annum to CFC. A truly altruistic act if accepted.

When Town's financial performance was compared to Burton, Rochdale and Walsall's CT leapt forward with some glee saying 'I thought you'd mention them'. He spoke of their far larger hospitality facilities and advertising boards that generated huge amounts. Thing is a couple of those qualified to do so pointed out they've still a smaller turnover than us yet are performing much better with it.

The top table could only offer a wry 'It's up to the Chairman' when asked about squad movement in January. My take: DA is, as reputation suggests, a very strong minded, stubborn, difficult and even caustic bloke. But for all his faults he knows fans need a reason to attend.

There were a few more enquiries regarding ticketing and the like but I'll allow others to cover those.

So, there we are. That's more or less what I can remember. Apologies if I've got excerpts wrong but this is all just my interpretation. If anyone expected blood and bodies I'm sorry; you're gonna be disappointed. That said Chris Turner and, to a lesser extent Ashley Carson were put on the ropes for extended periods. On the other hand I guess they got away without any knockout blows being landed. There's still no full disclosure and they're not going anywhere soon.

For what it's worth everyone shook hands at the end of the evening and CT accepted, despite his obvious displeasure at being targeted as he is, that it goes with the job. As Ashley Carson accepted - at face value, anyway - that lousy PR is the result of lousy behaviour. I respect them for that.

One final thing, too. Those representing 'Bob's Board' declined the offer of free tickets to a man. Adding that they should go to under-privileged kids if CFC have them to spare.

I hope there'll be no repeat of last night - because I hope there'll be no need for a repeat of last night.

Can't say I'm optimistic, though...

EDIT: summat I've just remembered. When asked why the Club is replacing it's IT provider AC confirmed his association with the current one, which also covers requirements at his 'other job' as had been rumoured.

Thanks Chris for the feedback. I'm somewhat amazied that at face value it appears to be a CEO admitting that he has been incompetent (not ignorant of) on a number of crucial business issues. I applaud Chris's candour, and it must have been a tough gig, but I can't think of many businesses and share holders putting up with that. I share your pessimism.

[dim view]

MDCCCLXVI, on 10 November 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

So, there we are. That's more or less what I can remember. Apologies if I've got excerpts wrong but this is all just my interpretation.

Great summary. I took few notes as the whole thing was recorded but, from memory....

1. Turner took away at least 2 action points to do today. As he also said he was going to watch a player, it's a busy day for him. I wonder who will be minding the shop?

2. It doesn't take a genius of a CEO to supply the Board with a master plan that they must sell players to make ends meet when that same CEO is taking a cut of player sales. His thinking doesn't seem to extend to other creative ideas like cost savings. The Board, bless 'em, fell for the plan hook line and sinker. That's ok then.

3. Somebody pointed out that the new Marketing man had done no work on building a relationship with existing sponsors. Whether the new man had been given that objective by his boss that he had failed to carry out was not made clear.

4. Ashley gave himself an action to find out about the Council's findings on Rafflegate as they have failed to get back to him.

5. CT got confused over costs for setting up the DC. He said he had not sought to put start up cash in but he also said that in spite of the idea being a 'no brainer' it could not be incorporated into CFC because of the costs.

[jonnythespireite]

Elton John 1866, on 10 November 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

Isn't that the CEO? It used to be Barrie Hubbard type accounting personnel at the old club. I mean a CEO is a big role with a myriad of responsibilities.

No. A financial controller or financial director who runs the financial side of the business and reports to the CEO or MD . Well that's what happens in normal businesses anyway.

Financial controllers tend to be , oddly enough, accountants. Not ex goalkeepers.

[The Black Triangle]

dim view, on 10 November 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

Great summary. I took few notes as the whole thing was recorded but, from memory....

1. Turner took away at least 2 action points to do today. As he also said he was going to watch a player, it's a busy day for him. I wonder who will be minding the shop?

2. It doesn't take a genius of a CEO to supply the Board with a master plan that they must sell players to make ends meet when that same CEO is taking a cut of player sales. His thinking doesn't seem to extend to other creative ideas like cost savings. The Board, bless 'em, fell for the plan hook line and sinker. That's ok then.

3. Somebody pointed out that the new Marketing man had done no work on building a relationship with existing sponsors. Whether the new man had been given that objective by his boss that he had failed to carry out was not made clear.

4. Ashley gave himself an action to find out about the Council's findings on Rafflegate as they have failed to get back to him.

5. CT got confused over costs for setting up the DC. He said he had not sought to put start up cash in but he also said that in spite of the idea being a 'no brainer' it could not be incorporated into CFC because of the costs.

5. The club couldn't start it because it was too expensive, so Turner did it with no start up funds? Is the really what he said?