[SpireiteFitzy]

dtp, on 23 February 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Out of interest did our most successful manager ever, John Duncan, have a fitness coach?

Did the manager who took us closest to the present day Championship, Arthur Cox, have a fitness coach?

What good is a fitness coach if he doesn't give you a squad any fitter than if he wasn't there? We have never had as many injuries at any one time as we have suffered this season. Nor, have I seen players that are less than 90 minute players, like Dan Gardner, become 90 minute players because we employ a fitness coach.

Are there any other clubs in the lower 2 leagues that don't employ a fitness coach?

Let me make myself clear, I thought Shinner was good for the club and I don't know the arguments "for" and "against" employing fitness coaches but I do wonder if they really do produce what it says on the tin. Obviously, fitness coaches themselves will always support employing one, they have to because they would be out of a job otherwise, but, this season in particular, fitness has been under question from the word go.

Cooks teams weren't necessarily the fittest, but they played by the old and true adage of letting the ball do the work for you. If you keep possession of the ball and know what to do it with you don't necessarily need superior fitness to win games.

[Mr Mercury]

spireitetoo, on 23 February 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

It's not my fault, it's not my fault,

Yes I saw that thread of the message.

[spirette]

hilly81, on 23 February 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

Carson Mal Purchase has left the club by mutual agreement. Gary has said he does not feel at this stage of the season he needs to replace Mal. This is his decision not mine or Chris Turner's. If he had wished to replace Mal he could have done. I suspect may have someone in mind who is already in employment and will wait until the end of the season before approaching them. He has however asked to bring in a first team coach to assist him in training ground coaching. This has been approved and will join us until the end of the season.
In no way has Gary been restricted in this area, it is his choice. The club will continue to support the manager 110%

Is it just me who reads that statement and feels it's Ashley Carson saying "the decision is nothing to do with me, so if it goes belly up, its not my fault"?


Edit - apologies, should have read the whole thread before replying

This post has been edited by spirette: 23 February 2017 - 04:27 PM

[brockwell-spireite]

spireman, on 23 February 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

I dont think fitness is relevant more to do with concentration and comittment. All players are fit, the millwall point shows that with the the c's the players can suceed.

In my experience and CPS will be able to tell you better ... concentration levels dip with fatigue... affects decision making ability... hence the mistakes you see.

[Nerima Spireite]

Goku, on 23 February 2017 - 04:11 PM, said:

Us having a bad fitness coach doesn't mean that they're all pointless. When we had Shinner we were always conditioned well if memory serves, especially under Cook. As soon as he left we conceded late goals more frequently, scored late goals more sparsely and we have continued this pattern since. I'd say the benefits speak for themselves. Additionally, I don't think Prem + Champ clubs appoint their armies of fitness coaches for a laugh. We didn't need a fitness coach back in t'day cos nobody else had one, at least not specialised at the level we have today.

I think that Mal Purchase is either a bad fitness coach or he's had out of work activities affecting his ability to get our team to the level of fitness they need to be at.

edit; sorry i started writing this shortly after you posted it and I've only just came back to it, ignore if this has been discussed since

No, this is a good post and it's basically where I'm at.

I'd go further - glad MP has left. His regime didn't work at all. It was such an error to let Shinner go. Just look at how the players managed to last the 90+ minutes when he was here vs recently. Get Shinner back!

[Yenx]

Shinner might not want to come back

[hilly81]

Nerima Spireite, on 23 February 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

No, this is a good post and it's basically where I'm at.

I'd go further - glad MP has left. His regime didn't work at all. It was such an error to let Shinner go. Just look at how the players managed to last the 90+ minutes when he was here vs recently. Get Shinner back!

I have been told that MP wasn't particularly happy with the instructions he was getting from Danny Wilson in terms of the players fitness regimes.

[Nerima Spireite]

Yenx, on 23 February 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

Shinner might not want to come back

Agreed

hilly81, on 23 February 2017 - 04:52 PM, said:

I have been told that MP wasn't particularly happy with the instructions he was getting from Danny Wilson in terms of the players fitness regimes.

Yes, but fitness levels were still worse with Deanosaurus in charge

This post has been edited by Nerima Spireite: 23 February 2017 - 04:57 PM

[hilly81]

Nerima Spireite, on 23 February 2017 - 04:56 PM, said:

Agreed



Yes, but fitness levels were still worse with Deanosaurus in charge

To be honest, I don't recall. I only saw two games under Saunders (Shrews and Crewe away) and we won both. I don't remember thinking we were unfit and don't recall much talk of it at the time. I could of course be completely wrong.

[calvin plummers socks]

hilly81, on 23 February 2017 - 04:52 PM, said:

I have been told that MP wasn't particularly happy with the instructions he was getting from Danny Wilson in terms of the players fitness regimes.

Exactly- all depends on what you are allowed to do by the manager - and they always know best (except they don't and that's why we are in bottom 4 in the division)......
MP has as good a credentials as any of us doing the stuff

[dtp]

calvin plummers socks, on 23 February 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

Exactly- fine margins . As often quoted-marginal gains.
The extra %
Ask yourself do Real Madrid, Saracens, Chicago Bulls, Chelsea, Juventus, etc etc etc have a team of fitness / S&C coaches? Yea they do. They also have the best coaches who see the need for them.

We have decided in the worst end of season in years to dispense with one. Most unprofessional thing I've heard in years.

If I was Town I'd get Nicholson back in immediately at least til the end of season. If it's down to costs then use the free offer available ( cough cough ;-) or both .......

Gary Caldwell is a fine ex pro and decedent young manager - the Club's letting him down in this respect

Aren't you trying to put words into people's mouths here?

How do you know that "we have decided to dispense with" MP? Is it not possible that MP has asked to be released from his contract because of personal problems?

It has been said that GC prefers to bring in a first team coach, at this stage, but you know different and the "club's letting him down".

Can't be many of us with as much inside information as you!!!!!!!!!

[dtp]

calvin plummers socks, on 23 February 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

Exactly- all depends on what you are allowed to do by the manager - and they always know best (except they don't and that's why we are in bottom 4 in the division)......
MP has as good a credentials as any of us doing the stuff

Right - just wondering why you have never become a manager with your credentials?

Also, if MP's credentials are as good as anybody's are you actually saying he is up there with the best?

This post has been edited by dtp: 23 February 2017 - 05:09 PM

[calvin plummers socks]

dtp, on 23 February 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

Aren't you trying to put words into people's mouths here?

How do you know that "we have decided to dispense with" MP? Is it not possible that MP has asked to be released from his contract because of personal problems?

It has been said that GC prefers to bring in a first team coach, at this stage, but you know different and the "club's letting him down".

Can't be many of us with as much inside information as you!!!!!!!!!

I don't believe for a second GC would want to manage a side without one. But that's the party line so maybe he does?
Have absolutely no inside information - you must have some as you're in with the Club.
MP is getting hammered and has been all season for lack of fitness.
AC said recently it was a concern that was being monitored and now the club choose not to replace him.
Explain how this is good for the Club DTP?

dtp, on 23 February 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

Right - just wondering why you have never become a manager with your credentials?

Also, if MP's credentials are as good as anybody's are you actually saying he is up there with the best?

Meaning?

[dim view]

calvin plummers socks, on 23 February 2017 - 05:09 PM, said:

I don't believe for a second GC would want to manage a side without one. But that's the party line so maybe he does?
Have absolutely no inside information - you must have some as you're in with the Club.
MP is getting hammered and has been all season for lack of fitness.
AC said recently it was a concern that was being monitored and now the club choose not to replace him.
Explain how this is good for the Club DTP?

presumably we still own the vests, and have somebody on the staff who can interpret the stats from the vests, and we still have another fitness coach who ensures that our apprentices and reserves are as fit as any opponents they compete against? I attend most of those matches and our fitness is excellent. They couldn't all have been under Mel P's regime?

[Jontt]

meowdmucker, on 23 February 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

So do we deduce that the management feel we don't need a fitness coach? That sums the season up.

Have we had a fitness coach all season ??!!!

[Nitrous Oxide]

Surely there's enough experience in the team to be able to get fitness levels up.

[dtp]

calvin plummers socks, on 23 February 2017 - 05:09 PM, said:

I don't believe for a second GC would want to manage a side without one. But that's the party line so maybe he does?
Have absolutely no inside information - you must have some as you're in with the Club.
MP is getting hammered and has been all season for lack of fitness.
AC said recently it was a concern that was being monitored and now the club choose not to replace him.
Explain how this is good for the Club DTP?

I have no inside information at all but, because of that, I don't try and interpret everything that happens as being wrong. I've no axe to grind with MP either but I do question the players fitness which is the responsibility of the fitness coach and what his job is based on. Because of that I don't agree that one should pass the book and blame somebody else either.

What is beneficial to GC (and hopefully the Club) is that he is now another step closer to being able to put his own backroom staff together.

This post has been edited by dtp: 23 February 2017 - 06:51 PM

[dtp]

calvin plummers socks, on 23 February 2017 - 05:09 PM, said:

Meaning?

I thought you, somewhat, suggested that you know better than some managers and, hence, thought you might be better in that role!!!

[tedspireite]

dtp, on 23 February 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

Chris, I honestly don't know the answers regarding fitness coaches. I actually said I thought Shinner was good for the club. I was merely trying to promote debate in this matter because, whilst MP might have his own side to the story as to why players so often struggled to see out the ninety minutes, fitness was his responsibility and, even when the man (DS), who appointed him with glowing references, was manager there was still fitness issues, particularly, with SEB.

Anyway, as far as I understand MP's contract was up in the summer, he has personal problems to deal with, and I can't really see that he could do much more about players fitness matters between now and the end of the season.

Still think Cox took us closer to the Championship than Cook did and Duncan was our most successful manager!!!!!!!!

Agree about cox .and if it was 3 points for a win then we would have got promoted to championship as we would have had one more point than sheff Wednesday. and yes Duncan most successful manager.

[calvin plummers socks]

dtp, on 23 February 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

I thought you, somewhat, suggested that you know better than some managers and, hence, thought you might be better in that role!!!

I have no idea what you do for a living but I'm sure you're lovely at it.
Reason I'm sticking my oar in on this thread as it's similar to what I do (so the only thing I'm qualified to moan about on a message board).
I've done my Eufa b and am doing my 'A'licence. Not because I want to coach the game or manage (shudder at the thought) but to increase my knowledge and improve what I do to be better at it.
Don't know why you think I have come across as being better than any manager because hell thats never the case. Every fan is an expert and believes they know better (look at any football forum on the 'net)! I rarely butt in on here about the footballing side (as apart from last 3 games have barely been all season).
I'm happy to be ridiculed at what I do do though (primarily by Warfey "googling hamstring injuries" is his favourite and mine) but believe me it's the one thing I am confident in spouting on about amongst a load of my other rubbish DTP