[Goku]

calvin plummers socks, on 23 February 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

We have a Director of football but no fitness coach (we are in relegation zone in league 1)......

This is bewildering when you stop and think about it. Chris Turner's robbing of a wage makes me... you guessed it... nauseous.

[tomjoad]

Lets hope they come for the DOF next then... 😁

[brockwell-spireite]

Fitness, strength and conditioning .. all of the sports sciences are exactly that a science and should be delivered by specialists... obviously having played at the level he has GC can probably deliver the majority of what's needed in terms of training... the thing is about sport even at towns level is the fine margins that can make a difference.

When I was a kid I used to think all those Man Utd goals in the last minute were them being lucky, then you realise it's about fitness... hence the number of goals we've conceded post 75 minutes... and the number of injuries we've had.

Likewise Chelsea this season are by all accounts fitter than they've been in a long time, the results speak for themselves.

[dtp]

Out of interest did our most successful manager ever, John Duncan, have a fitness coach?

Did the manager who took us closest to the present day Championship, Arthur Cox, have a fitness coach?

What good is a fitness coach if he doesn't give you a squad any fitter than if he wasn't there? We have never had as many injuries at any one time as we have suffered this season. Nor, have I seen players that are less than 90 minute players, like Dan Gardner, become 90 minute players because we employ a fitness coach.

Are there any other clubs in the lower 2 leagues that don't employ a fitness coach?

Let me make myself clear, I thought Shinner was good for the club and I don't know the arguments "for" and "against" employing fitness coaches but I do wonder if they really do produce what it says on the tin. Obviously, fitness coaches themselves will always support employing one, they have to because they would be out of a job otherwise, but, this season in particular, fitness has been under question from the word go.

[60s 70s Spireite]

brockwell-spireite, on 23 February 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Fitness, strength and conditioning .. all of the sports sciences are exactly that a science and should be delivered by specialists... obviously having played at the level he has GC can probably deliver the majority of what's needed in terms of training... the thing is about sport even at towns level is the fine margins that can make a difference.

When I was a kid I used to think all those Man Utd goals in the last minute were them being lucky, then you realise it's about fitness... hence the number of goals we've conceded post 75 minutes... and the number of injuries we've had.

Likewise Chelsea this season are by all accounts fitter than they've been in a long time, the results speak for themselves.

A counter argument to this, is surely that the better teams don't have to run around so much chasing shadows, their ball skills and passing abilities do all the work. This, and a winning mentality, make it far easier to score at the end of the game against a flagging opposition .

Mourinho said last month, when asked to explain the large number of goals scored by his team of late: that a positive team spirit underpins United’s continued run of late goals, as well as his own willingness to sacrifice defensive players when pressing forward in the closing stages.

[azul]

dtp, on 23 February 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Out of interest did our most successful manager ever, John Duncan, have a fitness coach?

Did the manager who took us closest to the present day Championship, Arthur Cox, have a fitness coach?

What good is a fitness coach if he doesn't give you a squad any fitter than if he wasn't there? We have never had as many injuries at any one time as we have suffered this season. Nor, have I seen players that are less than 90 minute players, like Dan Gardner, become 90 minute players because we employ a fitness coach.

Are there any other clubs in the lower 2 leagues that don't employ a fitness coach?

Let me make myself clear, I thought Shinner was good for the club and I don't know the arguments "for" and "against" employing fitness coaches but I do wonder if they really do produce what it says on the tin. Obviously, fitness coaches themselves will always support employing one, they have to because they would be out of a job otherwise, but, this season in particular, fitness has been under question from the word go.

Some people will say times have changed.

The bottom line appears to be Caldwell has been given a choice and he chose a coach over a fitness guru and he'll be judged on the outcome

This post has been edited by azul: 23 February 2017 - 03:19 PM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 23 February 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Out of interest did our most successful manager ever, John Duncan, have a fitness coach?

Did the manager who took us closest to the present day Championship, Arthur Cox, have a fitness coach?

What good is a fitness coach if he doesn't give you a squad any fitter than if he wasn't there? We have never had as many injuries at any one time as we have suffered this season. Nor, have I seen players that are less than 90 minute players, like Dan Gardner, become 90 minute players because we employ a fitness coach.

Are there any other clubs in the lower 2 leagues that don't employ a fitness coach?

Let me make myself clear, I thought Shinner was good for the club and I don't know the arguments "for" and "against" employing fitness coaches but I do wonder if they really do produce what it says on the tin. Obviously, fitness coaches themselves will always support employing one, they have to because they would be out of a job otherwise, but, this season in particular, fitness has been under question from the word go.

Alternatively it might be argued John Sheridan won the league and a Wembley final with a fitness coach whilst someone I view as our most successful ever manager, Paul Cook, added the L1 playoffs.

I think the days of a manager or his assistant flogging players up and down hills to get them fit have gone, my friend.

To his credit 'Deepthroat' rumoured this a few weeks ago, alongside the commercial bloke's exit, and insists MP's gone for purely football and family reasons. He also insists our now former fitness coach has his own side to the story of why players so often struggled to see out the full ninety minutes.

[hilly81]

MDCCCLXVI, on 23 February 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

Alternatively it might be argued John Sheridan won the league and a Wembley final with a fitness coach whilst someone I view as our most successful ever manager, Paul Cook, added the L1 playoffs.

I think the days of a manager or his assistant flogging players up and down hills to get them fit have gone, my friend.

To his credit 'Deepthroat' rumoured this a few weeks ago, alongside the commercial bloke's exit, and insists MP's gone for purely football and family reasons. He also insists our now former fitness coach has his own side to the story of why players so often struggled to see out the full ninety minutes.

Over training under Wilson?

[hilly81]

Carson Mal Purchase has left the club by mutual agreement. Gary has said he does not feel at this stage of the season he needs to replace Mal. This is his decision not mine or Chris Turner's. If he had wished to replace Mal he could have done. I suspect may have someone in mind who is already in employment and will wait until the end of the season before approaching them. He has however asked to bring in a first team coach to assist him in training ground coaching. This has been approved and will join us until the end of the season.
In no way has Gary been restricted in this area, it is his choice. The club will continue to support the manager 110%

[spireman]

Havent we got a qualified physotherapist that should know all about fitness and how to obtain. Why do we need a seperate coach when any of the staff can follow RW instruction.

[turrhall]

brockwell-spireite, on 23 February 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

hence the number of goals we've conceded post 75 minutes...

Coincidentally, I went to the trouble of working out how many goals we've conceded at the end of games recently.

This season only:

Between 70-FT: 17
Between 80-90: 10
After 90: 4

Meaning that we've conceded about a third of our goals after 70th minute which doesn't make for great reading. I did the same for last season too but have forgotten the exact figures; think we're on course to break them this season though.

[dtp]

MDCCCLXVI, on 23 February 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

Alternatively it might be argued John Sheridan won the league and a Wembley final with a fitness coach whilst someone I view as our most successful ever manager, Paul Cook, added the L1 playoffs.

I think the days of a manager or his assistant flogging players up and down hills to get them fit have gone, my friend.

To his credit 'Deepthroat' rumoured this a few weeks ago, alongside the commercial bloke's exit, and insists MP's gone for purely football and family reasons. He also insists our now former fitness coach has his own side to the story of why players so often struggled to see out the full ninety minutes.

Chris, I honestly don't know the answers regarding fitness coaches. I actually said I thought Shinner was good for the club. I was merely trying to promote debate in this matter because, whilst MP might have his own side to the story as to why players so often struggled to see out the ninety minutes, fitness was his responsibility and, even when the man (DS), who appointed him with glowing references, was manager there was still fitness issues, particularly, with SEB.

Anyway, as far as I understand MP's contract was up in the summer, he has personal problems to deal with, and I can't really see that he could do much more about players fitness matters between now and the end of the season.

Still think Cox took us closer to the Championship than Cook did and Duncan was our most successful manager!!!!!!!!

[Mr Mercury]

I think it's a fair comment regarding the time in the season, looks like building for next season already.

[spireman]

I dont think fitness is relevant more to do with concentration and comittment. All players are fit, the millwall point shows that with the the c's the players can suceed.

[calvin plummers socks]

dtp, on 23 February 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Out of interest did our most successful manager ever, John Duncan, have a fitness coach?


What good is a fitness coach if he doesn't give you a squad any fitter than if he wasn't there?

Are there any other clubs in the lower 2 leagues that don't employ a fitness coach?

Yes

No good at all if not working like any walk of life (and depends on how directed by the manager and in some cases attitude of players

No none at all (except Town now)

[calvin plummers socks]

dtp, on 23 February 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

Chris, I honestly don't know the answers regarding fitness coaches.


and I can't really see that he could do much more about players fitness matters between now and the end of the season.

So you don't think a players fitness etc can be improved in 11 weeks.
Thank goodness you're not a Director of Football!

spireman, on 23 February 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

I dont think fitness is relevant more to do with concentration and comittment. All players are fit, the millwall point shows that with the the c's the players can suceed.

That's like saying all players can play/ so why have coaches?
We clearly haven't got the commitment either at moment (according to Evatt).
All players certainly aren't fit (maybe compared to the average fan in the stands but you wouldn't pay £20 to watch that

[calvin plummers socks]

brockwell-spireite, on 23 February 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Fitness, strength and conditioning .. all of the sports sciences are exactly that a science and should be delivered by specialists... obviously having played at the level he has GC can probably deliver the majority of what's needed in terms of training... the thing is about sport even at towns level is the fine margins that can make a difference.

Exactly- fine margins . As often quoted-marginal gains.
The extra %
Ask yourself do Real Madrid, Saracens, Chicago Bulls, Chelsea, Juventus, etc etc etc have a team of fitness / S&C coaches? Yea they do. They also have the best coaches who see the need for them.

We have decided in the worst end of season in years to dispense with one. Most unprofessional thing I've heard in years.

If I was Town I'd get Nicholson back in immediately at least til the end of season. If it's down to costs then use the free offer available ( cough cough ;-) or both .......

Gary Caldwell is a fine ex pro and decedent young manager - the Club's letting him down in this respect

[Goku]

dtp, on 23 February 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Out of interest did our most successful manager ever, John Duncan, have a fitness coach?

Did the manager who took us closest to the present day Championship, Arthur Cox, have a fitness coach?

What good is a fitness coach if he doesn't give you a squad any fitter than if he wasn't there? We have never had as many injuries at any one time as we have suffered this season. Nor, have I seen players that are less than 90 minute players, like Dan Gardner, become 90 minute players because we employ a fitness coach.

Are there any other clubs in the lower 2 leagues that don't employ a fitness coach?

Let me make myself clear, I thought Shinner was good for the club and I don't know the arguments "for" and "against" employing fitness coaches but I do wonder if they really do produce what it says on the tin. Obviously, fitness coaches themselves will always support employing one, they have to because they would be out of a job otherwise, but, this season in particular, fitness has been under question from the word go.

Us having a bad fitness coach doesn't mean that they're all pointless. When we had Shinner we were always conditioned well if memory serves, especially under Cook. As soon as he left we conceded late goals more frequently, scored late goals more sparsely and we have continued this pattern since. I'd say the benefits speak for themselves. Additionally, I don't think Prem + Champ clubs appoint their armies of fitness coaches for a laugh. We didn't need a fitness coach back in t'day cos nobody else had one, at least not specialised at the level we have today.

I think that Mal Purchase is either a bad fitness coach or he's had out of work activities affecting his ability to get our team to the level of fitness they need to be at.

edit; sorry i started writing this shortly after you posted it and I've only just came back to it, ignore if this has been discussed since

This post has been edited by Goku: 23 February 2017 - 04:11 PM

[Sammy Spireite]

Mr Mercury, on 23 February 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

I think it's a fair comment regarding the time in the season, looks like building for next season already.

A counter comment could be "why is the manager not making ANY plans beyond the summer?"

and a cynic might suggest he might be gone, if we don't stay up.

Of course, at this stage of the season, an assistant with knowledge of tactics/motivation etc should have more of an effect of short term results than a fitness coach would have.

[spireitetoo]

hilly81, on 23 February 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

Carson Mal Purchase has left the club by mutual agreement. Gary has said he does not feel at this stage of the season he needs to replace Mal. This is his decision not mine or Chris Turner's. If he had wished to replace Mal he could have done. I suspect may have someone in mind who is already in employment and will wait until the end of the season before approaching them. He has however asked to bring in a first team coach to assist him in training ground coaching. This has been approved and will join us until the end of the season.
In no way has Gary been restricted in this area, it is his choice. The club will continue to support the manager 110%

It's not my fault, it's not my fault,