[h again]

Sammy Spireite, on 18 January 2021 - 06:45 PM, said:

Its being reported that that DCMS have now stated that the £11M support package is actually a loan and not a grant as initially thought.

Surely some clubs haven't got a hope in hell in repaying the sort of money they were getting/already got?!

This could well see a premature end to the season and players being out on furlough!

Hang on. Nobody gives or takes 11 million quid without being very specific about the terms. You can't dish out the money as a grant and then suddenly say it's a loan, and any club receiving it would surely want to know on what basis it was given.
If it was a loan the terms of repayment would have to be agreed at the outset for one thing.
Or am I just being naive? This is football administration, after all.

[60s 70s Spireite]

h again, on 18 January 2021 - 08:33 PM, said:

Hang on. Nobody gives or takes 11 million quid without being very specific about the terms. You can't dish out the money as a grant and then suddenly say it's a loan, and any club receiving it would surely want to know on what basis it was given.
If it was a loan the terms of repayment would have to be agreed at the outset for one thing.
Or am I just being naive? This is football administration, after all.

As I understand, it’s the next tranche that would be a loan, not the one we have had.

[hardgums]

h again, on 18 January 2021 - 08:33 PM, said:

Hang on. Nobody gives or takes 11 million quid without being very specific about the terms. You can't dish out the money as a grant and then suddenly say it's a loan, and any club receiving it would surely want to know on what basis it was given.
If it were a loan, the terms of repayment would have to be agreed at the outset for one thing.
Or am I just being naive? This is football administration, after all.

Don't think this is retrospective. It's about the next tranche of money. Will cause problems for all clubs whose cashflow were doubtless predicated on grants rather than loans.

[CFC91]

Westbars Spireite, on 18 January 2021 - 07:49 PM, said:

If the league was to be voided how much in furlough could the government effectively wave goodbye to across the NLs?

I’ve seen £14m quoted on twitter. Which if true makes no sense as to why they wouldn’t just gift the NL the £11m and be £3m better off.

Then again it’s a drop in the ocean compared to what they’ve wasted on track and trace and the like

[Westbars Spireite]

CFC91, on 18 January 2021 - 08:41 PM, said:

I’ve seen £14m quoted on twitter. Which if true makes no sense as to why they wouldn’t just gift the NL the £11m and be £3m better off.

Then again it’s a drop in the ocean compared to what they’ve wasted on track and trace and the like

That's the first mathematical question I was pondering. Dishing out the cash is unlikely to be significantly worse than picking up a monthly bill from every club.

[dtp]

moondog, on 18 January 2021 - 08:07 PM, said:

In theory yes, but to give them less will be admitting the "error" so is unlikely to happen.

Too late anyway. They can hardly ask for any money back so that it can be redistributed as they would struggle to get it. They could have made adjustments in the December payment if they had accepted the independent review they requested but didn't like. So, it's a bit of a two fingered salute from the NL Chiefs as they appear to have looked after themselves in some cases.

[azul]

Westbars Spireite, on 18 January 2021 - 08:50 PM, said:

That's the first mathematical question I was pondering. Dishing out the cash is unlikely to be significantly worse than picking up a monthly bill from every club.

At least with nearly 30 players we’ll be getting our fair share this time.

Poor old Boreham Wood, they would be looking forward to their £58 per fan again if the second tranche went ahead

What gets me is that it is mid January and they’ve just confirmed the second tranche is a loan.

[Westbars Spireite]

azul, on 18 January 2021 - 10:04 PM, said:

At least with nearly 30 players we’ll be getting our fair share this time.

Poor old Boreham Wood, they would be looking forward to their £58 per fan again if the second tranche went ahead

What gets me is that it is mid January and they’ve just confirmed the second tranche is a loan.

It seems to me that this unwelcome revelation could be enough to see the season canned. Not what we want, that’s for sure.

[dim view]

60s 70s Spireite, on 18 January 2021 - 08:35 PM, said:

As I understand, it’s the next tranche that would be a loan, not the one we have had.

Perhaps the loanee will be the NL Exec, not individual clubs. So, when they've got reserves in the shoe box, a bit like FIFA, they can pay it back.

[azul]

Maybe the government has caught wind of the distribution of grants so far and is reluctant to see some clubs profiteering from the last tranche.

Knowing how this government works that won't be a case and it will just be down to thoughtlessness, however it would offer some comfort that the NL has shot itself in the foot.

This post has been edited by azul: 19 January 2021 - 11:32 AM

[moondog]

azul, on 19 January 2021 - 11:31 AM, said:

Maybe the government has caught wind of the distribution of grants so far and is reluctant to see some clubs profiteering from the last tranche.

Knowing how this government works that won't be a case and it will just be down to thoughtlessness, however it would offer some comfort that the NL has shot itself in the foot.

That's the stance Toby Perkins is taking, he has a point but he still ought to be arguing that the funding be grants.

[moondog]

It's not looking good at all


https://theathletic....ll/cX1YdVJt55wM


The National League season is at risk of being called off this week following talks between the league and the Department of Culture, Media and Sport over funding, Jack Pitt-Brooke and Philip Buckingham can reveal.

Mark Ives, the league’s interim general manager, has called a meeting with clubs on Wednesday where he is expected to break the bad news that there will be no more government grant money for the second half of the season.

The majority of clubs in the National League North and South are expected to insist that their seasons cannot continue without extra help, raising the prospect of the seasons being declared void before the half-way point.

What's the problem?
The problem stems from the decision taken by Michael Tattersall, the former National League CEO, to start the season on October 3 without fans. This was a reversal of the initial policy that the 2020-21 season would only take place with fans in the grounds.

Gate receipts make up the vast majority of revenue for National League clubs and while some fans were briefly allowed back for games between the second and third national lockdowns, it was never going to be enough to plug the gap.

In late October the government announced that they would provide £10 million of funding, which the National League could distribute between the clubs. But that money would only last for a few months.

How significant are the financial issues?
There was bitter controversy over how the £10 million of grants was distributed. The National League devised a system whereby the Step 1 clubs would receive £95,000 or £84,000 while the Step 2 clubs would get £36,000 or £30,000.

This prompted a furious response from better supported clubs who had lost far more than that in gate receipts.

There were calls for Brian Barwick’s resignation and former FA chairman David Bernstein wrote an independent report into the process that was never published. National League CEO Michael Tattersall stood down.

But the National League was expecting another tranche of grants from the government, and clubs were crestfallen to learn this week that DCMS now intends on giving them loans rather than grants.

With clubs having no gate income at all during the third national lockdown, many cannot afford to play on with just a loan. That is why they are desperate for a government u-turn.

How much support would ending the season have?
There is plenty of support for ending the season from the National League South and North clubs.

These are clubs who received much less money from the autumn grants, regardless of how well supported they are, and now simply cannot afford to keep on playing.

12 National League North clubs wrote to culture secretary Oliver Dowden asking for grants, rather than loans.

One well-placed source said that he expects “three quarters” of that league to support cancelling the league, with similar positions expected in National League South.

“The vast majority of clubs won’t continue as it is unless grants are provided,” said one source. “We certainly won’t be getting into hundreds of thousands of pounds of debt to finish the season.”

Does this apply to the entire National League structure?
The picture in the National League is less clear with some sources expecting there to be more support for playing on even if there is no government u-turn on grants.

But one National League source said there is a sense of betrayal that they started the season on the assumption that they would either have fans, or government support, and now they are faced with the prospect of having neither.

“We've all done what we were told to do,” he said. “That's the killer. We haven't put ourselves in this position.”

What could happen over the coming days?
The National League is set for a board meeting on Tuesday lunchtime and then they key Zoom meeting with all 67 clubs which will take place on Wednesday morning.

This is when the clubs are expecting to be told that there is no more money, and when the clubs will make their feelings known on the continuation of the season after that.

Some clubs are not expecting to be playing this weekend.

What has the DCMS said?
A DCMS spokesperson told The Athletic: “Last year we brokered a unique deal between the National Lottery and the National League to provide a £10 million cash injection for these much-loved clubs. Since then we have announced a further £300 million investment to protect the immediate future of spectator sports, including another £11 million for National League clubs to help them finish the season.

“It is incorrect to suggest funding was ever promised as grants. Clubs in scope will be assessed for support on the same criteria as other professional clubs.”

[moondog]

I suppose the last line of that report gives us some hope given we have the same standing professionally as an EFL club, problem is unlike them we don't play in a fully professional league as some clubs are part time.

[azul]

moondog, on 19 January 2021 - 11:53 AM, said:

I suppose the last line of that report gives us some hope given we have the same standing professionally as an EFL club, problem is unlike them we don't play in a fully professional league as some clubs are part time.

I thought the EFL were getting money from the PFL and not the government?

Back to the NL meeting, I assume a vote to continue would have to be unanimous and not just a simple or qualified majority.

Maybe more lottery funding could be facilitated

This post has been edited by azul: 19 January 2021 - 12:30 PM

[hardgums]

Pure conjecture, but might we not be better off if the current season was called to a halt? I like all Spireites would love us to make a real tilt at the playoffs, but even with the James Rome effect in play, that's likely to be a stretch. If the season was voided and players furloughed, I'm guessing we'd be OK financially. Start afresh next season with those players we're currently looking to offload, out of contract and off the books. Might work for us although I expect Torquay, Hartlepool, and Sutton to be pretty miffed.

[dim view]

moondog, on 19 January 2021 - 11:45 AM, said:

It's not looking good at all



What could happen over the coming days?
The National League is set for a board meeting on Tuesday lunchtime and then they key Zoom meeting with all 67 clubs which will take place on Wednesday morning.

I hope one of the agenda items is a no confidence in the Board motion. Perhaps it will have been disbanded by Wednesday dinner.

[dim view]

hardgums, on 19 January 2021 - 12:30 PM, said:

Pure conjecture, but might we not be better off if the current season was called to a halt? I like all Spireites would love us to make a real tilt at the playoffs, but even with the James Rome effect in play, that's likely to be a stretch. If the season was voided and players furloughed, I'm guessing we'd be OK financially. Start afresh next season with those players we're currently looking to offload, out of contract and off the books. Might work for us although I expect Torquay, Hartlepool, and Sutton to be pretty miffed.

Does anybody know how much the prize money is for promotion?

[Lincs Spireite]

If just one club in the national league says no, they are having nothing to do with loans and refuse to play, then it pretty much scuppers the season for everyone else.

[DIFH]

azul, on 19 January 2021 - 12:21 PM, said:

I thought the EFL were getting money from the PFL and not the government? WAS THAT FOR COVID TESTING MAYBE.

Back to the NL meeting, I assume a vote to continue would have to be unanimous and not just a simple or qualified majority.

Maybe more lottery funding could be facilitated

[60s 70s Spireite]

hardgums, on 19 January 2021 - 12:30 PM, said:

Pure conjecture, but might we not be better off if the current season was called to a halt? I like all Spireites would love us to make a real tilt at the playoffs, but even with the James Rome effect in play, that's likely to be a stretch. If the season was voided and players furloughed, I'm guessing we'd be OK financially. Start afresh next season with those players we're currently looking to offload, out of contract and off the books. Might work for us although I expect Torquay, Hartlepool, and Sutton to be pretty miffed.

Problem with the furlough is that you van only claim for staff who were on your books on 30 October. They’re would be about 9 we couldn’t claim for. Of the remaining, I would imagine a good number would be on higher salaries than the (80% of) £25k maximum level, so they would have to take a pay cut for us to break even on the claim v wages paid.