[dim view]

Mr Mercury, on 23 September 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

I'm sure they'd be a few genuinely interested parties with the clubs best interests at heart willing to discuss a takeover at a sensible price...sadly that sentence is full of flaws where DA is concerned.

Could there be a consortium willing to buy out Mike Warner in exchange for 2 seats on the Board? That's considerably less outlay and a guaranteed favourable interest rate.

[60s 70s Spireite]

dim view, on 23 September 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

Could there be a consortium willing to buy out Mike Warner in exchange for 2 seats on the Board? That's considerably less outlay and a guaranteed favourable interest rate.

But no guarantee of a place on the Board, which is at the whim of the majority shareholder.

[dim view]

60s 70s Spireite, on 23 September 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

But no guarantee of a place on the Board, which is at the whim of the majority shareholder.

I'm saying this would be a minimum requirement - the same number of seats as Allen's nominees. Why has Warner never inquired whether anybody wants to buy him out? He's even got Carson telling the media on his behalf that he wants out.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

DEATH, on 23 September 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

Being serious for a minute.


If DA did decide enough is enough, what options would there be for the club, and for the owner?


What is the club worth? I’m only guessing but I doubt much more than 3 million,even if he wrote off all of the debts?


What would the land be worth? A couple of million? Maybe 3 million? Would he need Tesco or Bowden’s to lift the sports caveats? What’s the price of land in town these days?


What’s it going to cost him this season to fund yet another struggle, while gates fall?


Then of course, if he did stop funding who covers the day to day losses? If an administrator is appointed, can the owner still reject offers? Can the administrators accept an offer based on a valuation they feel is acceptable? I don’t know enough about how all that works.


The club. If the above happened, and it looked like being the end, could “the club” be bought separately? Maybe with a view to groundshare? Could that be separated from assets, and the debts separated as well?

I thought the whole point of admin is to allow independent people to save and/or sell a failing business. Indeed that's why I've always believed there's no way Allen would go down that route - others knowing better than him? Proving they can make a success of his failure?

Nah, never gonna happen.

So that leaves us being liquidated or flogged to any Tom, Dick or Reg that offers a face saving figure. And a buyer that wouldn't necessarily go sticking their nose where it doesn't belong, perhaps...

[Wooden Spoon]

MDCCCLXVI said:

1537707365[/url]' post='1419699']
I thought the whole point of admin is to allow independent people to save and/or sell a failing business. Indeed that's why I've always believed there's no way Allen would go down that route - others knowing better than him? Proving they can make a success of his failure?

Nah, never gonna happen.

So that leaves us being liquidated or flogged to any Tom, Dick or Reg that offers a face saving figure. And a buyer that wouldn't necessarily go sticking their nose where it doesn't belong, perhaps...

From HMRC

A director can ask a court to order the company to stop trading and be liquidated (‘wound up’).

This is known as ‘compulsory liquidation’.

You need to show the court that:

• the company cannot pay its debts of £750 or more
• 75% (by value of shares) of shareholders agree that the court can wind up the company

[60s 70s Spireite]

DEATH, on 23 September 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

From HMRC

A director can ask a court to order the company to stop trading and be liquidated (‘wound up’).

This is known as ‘compulsory liquidation’.

You need to show the court that:

• the company cannot pay its debts of £750 or more
• 75% (by value of shares) of shareholders agree that the court can wind up the company

The Appointed Liquidator then is duty bound to maximise the return for the creditors by selling the assets to the highest bidder.

[Wooden Spoon]

60s 70s Spireite said:

1537714559[/url]' post='1419730']
The Appointed Liquidator then is duty bound to maximise the return for the creditors by selling the assets to the highest bidder.

Assets? Or a going concern?

[azul]

60s 70s Spireite, on 23 September 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

The Appointed Liquidator then is duty bound to maximise the return for the creditors by selling the assets to the highest bidder.

And who will be the biggest creditor?

I don’t get all this talk of admin or liquidation

If CFC had other significant creditors other than DA or his companies it might sense so he could screw them while keeping control of the club. But as he holds nearly all the debt it seems a bit pointless.

Surely liquidating the club would mean the stadium/ground is sold to a third party in a fire sale outside of his control.

I can think of other ways he could keep control assets without playing football

[60s 70s Spireite]

DEATH, on 23 September 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

Assets? Or a going concern?

By definition a liquidation means there is no longer a going concern. It would have to be a CVA to have a chance of still being a going concern.

[azul]

MDCCCLXVI, on 23 September 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

I thought the whole point of admin is to allow independent people to save and/or sell a failing business. Indeed that's why I've always believed there's no way Allen would go down that route - others knowing better than him? Proving they can make a success of his failure?

Nah, never gonna happen.

So that leaves us being liquidated or flogged to any Tom, Dick or Reg that offers a face saving figure. And a buyer that wouldn't necessarily go sticking their nose where it doesn't belong, perhaps...

That first para seems a bit naive - sure there has been a few football clubs who went in and out of admin in a flash with the sole reason of writing off debt - Leicester City springs to mind

[60s 70s Spireite]

azul, on 23 September 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

And who will be the biggest creditor?

I don’t get all this talk of admin or liquidation

If CFC had other significant creditors other than DA or his companies it might sense so he could screw them while keeping control of the club. But as he holds nearly all the debt it seems a bit pointless.

Surely liquidating the club would mean the stadium/ground is sold to a third party in a fire sale outside of his control.

I can think of other ways he could keep control assets without playing football

I tend to agree. But there again what logic has he followed to be where he is with the club now?

[azul]

DEATH, on 23 September 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

Assets? Or a going concern?

Do you understand the difference between admin and liquidation?

I can think of three obvious scenarios

Admin > exit via an agreed CVA (agreed by the majority of cereditors) > sold as a going concern

Admin > no agreed CVA > liquidation > assets sold and any monies distributed between the preferred creditors

Presumably you can liquidate without going through the admin process perhaps ‘60s 70s’ can confirm.

[kh83]

Middle East, on 22 September 2018 - 10:22 PM, said:

Well Martin you certainly haven't!

....and the next cretin who posts "in Allen we trust" needs a very stern talking too as well!

After 45 years today was my worse point as a Spireite. The worrying thing is we ain't finished our free fall yet....

Our club is literally dying before our eyes!

While the fans sit back and do nothing other than disapprove of supporters that suggest doing something. In years to come the fans will look back with deep regret that they watched their club die whilst sitting back doing nothing

[Blue5]

Why would David want to sell or liquidate the club?

[Wooden Spoon]

azul said:

1537716949[/url]' post='1419741']
Do you understand the difference between admin and liquidation?

I can think of three obvious scenarios

Admin > exit via an agreed CVA (agreed by the majority of cereditors) > sold as a going concern

Admin > no agreed CVA > liquidation > assets sold and any monies distributed between the preferred creditors

Presumably you can liquidate without going through the admin process perhaps '60s 70s' can confirm.

Apologies, I was getting mixed up.

I was thinking the club could be sold separate to the ground, but that wouldn’t work in either scenario as the ground is “owned” by the club, and to separate assets the club couldn’t be sold as it liquidated and only assets remain

[dart in the crossbar]

Well...

If the football side is a drain on DA's resources but the event side brings in revenue + if the land value has remained flat or increased =

1 Cut losses on the football side through a sale of that part of the club (only) or
2 Turn the football side around until it is profitable or
3 Run the football side down so far that the losses disappear or are minimal.

MA has the feel of a last gasp saloon by DA to achieve '2'. As the 'MA experiment' fails rapidly, '1' becomes less likely and '3' much more likely.

Given that MA doesn't seem to have a sentimental tie to the club but is a businessman, it's hard to see any other outcome.

[Wooden Spoon]

Blue5 said:

1537718267[/url]' post='1419752']
Why would David want to sell or liquidate the club?

Why would David continue to run a business in this manner, with the same people in charge, while having to fund six figure shortfalls each and every season?

[Blue roan lily]

kh83, on 23 September 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

While the fans sit back and do nothing other than disapprove of supporters that suggest doing something. In years to come the fans will look back with deep regret that they watched their club die whilst sitting back doing nothing

More than likely. It's on it's way now.

[Wooden Spoon]

dart in the crossbar said:

1537719499[/url]' post='1419767']
Well...

If the football side is a drain on DA's resources but the event side brings in revenue + if the land value has remained flat or increased =

1 Cut losses on the football side through a sale of that part of the club (only) or
2 Turn the football side around until it is profitable or
3 Run the football side down so far that the losses disappear or are minimal.

MA has the feel of a last gasp saloon by DA to achieve '2'. As the 'MA experiment' fails rapidly, '1' becomes less likely and '3' much more likely.

Given that MA doesn't seem to have a sentimental tie to the club but is a businessman, it's hard to see any other outcome.

Do you think the non football part of the business will be profitable if the football side of the business end up being run on peanuts and playing Alfreton etc?

[Spire-Heights]

DEATH, on 23 September 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

Do you think the non football part of the business will be profitable if the football side of the business end up being run on peanuts and playing Alfreton etc?

If we go down, it won’t stop there.