[Westbars Spireite]

He projected an average figure higher than our first season at the ground when we saw some of the best football for years. On the back of a season we finished 9th. With only one local derby. It was a daft guess.

[Cartman]

Westbars Spireite, on 22 July 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

He projected an average figure higher than our first season at the ground when we saw some of the best football for years. On the back of a season we finished 9th. With only one local derby. It was a daft guess.

projected 7k

first season at proact was just under 7k (6930 or summat)

hoping that good football would bring similar amounts of home fans as the other promotion season

not the worst ball park guess ever made and certainly not as bad as some are making out

[Goku]

Cartman, on 22 July 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

they based the projection on the average attendance the last time we were promoted

that isn't too far fetched surely?

and again, to take what he said as a personal insult is ridiculous!

He thought we would get more fans than the time we last got promoted?

And you think that isn't too far fetched?

Really?

[Cartman]

Goku, on 23 July 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

He thought we would get more fans than the time we last got promoted?

And you think that isn't too far fetched?

Really?

not as if the forecast was 1000s more or even 100s more it was the nearest round number to what we go last time

so of course it is not too far fetched

to suggest it is is just silly

[Goku]

So. Just to confirm. You don't think it's far fetched that he predicted higher than our last Championship winning average attendance, bearing in mind we had just moved into a new stadium back then, where we were watching a team containing the attacking talents of Jack Lester, Craig Davies and co. You don't think it's far fetched?

I'm just trying to get my ducks in a line here, I'm sure you understand. Because I cannot possibly believe that any of our fans wouldn't think that's far fetched. It seems downright idiotic to me.

[Cartman]

Goku, on 23 July 2014 - 06:01 PM, said:

So. Just to confirm. You don't think it's far fetched that he predicted higher than our last Championship winning average attendance, bearing in mind we had just moved into a new stadium back then, where we were watching a team containing the attacking talents of Jack Lester, Craig Davies and co. You don't think it's far fetched?

I'm just trying to get my ducks in a line here, I'm sure you understand. Because I cannot possibly believe that any of our fans wouldn't think that's far fetched. It seems downright idiotic to me.

teh prediction was only slightly higher, the way you are going on you would think they predicted 10000 average gates - they didn't

if you are forcasting volumes in any business you go on what has happened before, so it is entirely sensible to predict a number based on what we had the last time we had a decent team with a chance of winning the league

And listing attacking talents of Lester, Davies is irrelevent as well, last season we were amongst the league's top scorers and were watching attacking talents such as Gary Roberts, Jay O'Shea, Ollie Banks, Dan Gardner etc etc

The forecast turned out to be wrong, but going on and on about it being idiotic is just stupid when it was based on the attendances we got during another promotion season

You need to find some other stuff to slate CT/DA about because the attendance forecast was not out of the realms of reality

[Spireite-Karl]

Goku, on 23 July 2014 - 06:01 PM, said:

So. Just to confirm. You don't think it's far fetched that he predicted higher than our last Championship winning average attendance, bearing in mind we had just moved into a new stadium back then, where we were watching a team containing the attacking talents of Jack Lester, Craig Davies and co. You don't think it's far fetched?

I'm just trying to get my ducks in a line here, I'm sure you understand. Because I cannot possibly believe that any of our fans wouldn't think that's far fetched. It seems downright idiotic to me.

And not only that, surely you budget sensibly (lower mid range) and not forecast at the top end hoping that everything goes swimmingly. Surely it’s foolish to work like that.
How can you set a high budget and then spend over this and then wonder why you have such a deficit when you fall way short of your target?

[Goku]

Yes, it was. It was absolutely outside the realms of reality and you are the club's biggest apologist going.

Your constant over exaggerations are incredibly boring by the way. You can give them a rest, like. Wait, I need to use your favourite buzzwords - they're 'idiotic' and 'stupid'.

This post has been edited by Goku: 23 July 2014 - 06:09 PM

[Wooden Spoon]

Cartman, on 23 July 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

teh prediction was only slightly higher, the way you are going on you would think they predicted 10000 average gates - they didn't

if you are forcasting volumes in any business you go on what has happened before, so it is entirely sensible to predict a number based on what we had the last time we had a decent team with a chance of winning the league

And listing attacking talents of Lester, Davies is irrelevent as well, last season we were amongst the league's top scorers and were watching attacking talents such as Gary Roberts, Jay O'Shea, Ollie Banks, Dan Gardner etc etc

The forecast turned out to be wrong, but going on and on about it being idiotic is just stupid when it was based on the attendances we got during another promotion season

You need to find some other stuff to slate CT/DA about because the attendance forecast was not out of the realms of reality

if you estimate the gates to be 7k then that's surely the max you expect given there was just one local game and one sell out, compared to last time.

So you would surely revise that estimate, or at least revise the budget - base the budget on 6500 - if its better it allows strengthening in Jan if not your not running a huge loss.

[Cartman]

Spireite-Karl, on 23 July 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

And not only that, surely you budget sensibly (lower mid range) and not forecast at the top end hoping that everything goes swimmingly. Surely it’s foolish to work like that.
How can you set a high budget and then spend over this and then wonder why you have such a deficit when you fall way short of your target?

it is only foolish with hindsight

Goku, on 23 July 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

Yes, it was. It was absolutely outside the realms of reality and you are the club's biggest apologist going.

Your constant over exaggerations are incredibly boring by the way. You can give them a rest, like. Wait, I need to use your favourite buzzwords - they're 'idiotic' and 'stupid'.

far from it

I am just not an over the top needy muppet who over reacts at everything that comes out of the club and can be realistic enough to see that we are not in a bad position at the moment and can see that people are moaning for moanings sake

[Cartman]

a kick in the balls, on 23 July 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

if you estimate the gates to be 7k then that's surely the max you expect given there was just one local game and one sell out, compared to last time.

So you would surely revise that estimate, or at least revise the budget - base the budget on 6500 - if its better it allows strengthening in Jan if not your not running a huge loss.

with hindsight that would have been sensible

I would have expected them to revise the predictions at least a few times through the season anyway - appears they did not

And anyway, this 7k prediction is being used a way to try and deflect critisism about the club not spending loads in pre season and as part of a chairman's rallying cry to get more fans - perhaps an ill advised thing to make public, but people are taking what DA said far too personally

But the fact remains that you predict volumes based on what has gone before, we have had one promotion season at the Proact and averaged around 7k, therefore a 7k prediction based on thinking you'll be at the top all season is not far fetched at all

[Spireite-Karl]

Cartman, on 23 July 2014 - 06:15 PM, said:

it is only foolish with hindsight

Correct, but not much foresight was there. You budget high, then spend over this and wonder why it's all fallen flat? Give me a break

[Wooden Spoon]

Cartman, on 23 July 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

with hindsight that would have been sensible

I would have expected them to revise the predictions at least a few times through the season anyway - appears they did not

And anyway, this 7k prediction is being used a way to try and deflect critisism about the club not spending loads in pre season and as part of a chairman's rallying cry to get more fans - perhaps an ill advised thing to make public, but people are taking what DA said far too personally

But the fact remains that you predict volumes based on what has gone before, we have had one promotion season at the Proact and averaged around 7k, therefore a 7k prediction based on thinking you'll be at the top all season is not far fetched at all

well you wouldn't have needed to be a genius to see what could happen if you fall short, and err on the side of caution.

[Goku]

Yes, everyone is needy and 90% of town fans are thick and everything is gonna be fine, we've got a squad ready for the season, we're capable of scoring regular goals and everyone who sees even the slightest issue with the lies we've been fed, the stupid idiotic "average attendance" prediction from the professionals in charge of our club or anything else is an over the top needy muppet who "needs constant transfer updates every ten minutes!" and they are "criticising for stupid reasons!". Yeah right buddy. Sure thing.



[As a side note - things may well go swimmingly this season, we may finish mid table for all I know - it will still not excuse the rank idiocy and amateurishness emanating from this club over recent months]

This post has been edited by Goku: 23 July 2014 - 06:25 PM

[Cartman]

Spireite-Karl, on 23 July 2014 - 06:20 PM, said:

Correct, but not much foresight was there. You budget high, then spend over this and wonder why it's all fallen flat? Give me a break

for the hundreth time, basing a forecast on what has gone before is normal and what is done in all businesses when predicting volume

[Cartman]

a kick in the balls, on 23 July 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

well you wouldn't have needed to be a genius to see what could happen if you fall short, and err on the side of caution.

Fair point

Goku, on 23 July 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:

Yes, everyone is needy and 90% of town fans are thick and everything is gonna be fine, we've got a squad ready for the season, we're capable of scoring regular goals and everyone who sees even the slightest issue with the lies we've been fed, the stupid idiotic "average attendance" prediction from the professionals in charge of our club or anything else is an over the top needy muppet who "needs constant transfer updates every ten minutes!" and they are "criticising for stupid reasons!". Yeah right buddy. Sure thing.


[As a side note - things may well go swimmingly this season, we may finish mid table for all I know - it will still not excuse the rank idiocy and amateurishness emanating from this club over recent months]

Most town fans are thick, just go to games and this becomes clear - in fact most football fans in general are thick, as most of the general public are - you only have to look at the fact Katie Price is a celebrity or that reality TV shows are watched to figure this out

A lot of fans on here are needy and want to be updated by the club every 10 minutes and expect transfer dealings to be public

We are capable of scoring goals as we were last season without a 'main' striker

And yes I am right, as I usually am!

[h again]

Goku, on 23 July 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

Yes, it was. It was absolutely outside the realms of reality and you are the club's biggest apologist going.

Your constant over exaggerations are incredibly boring by the way. You can give them a rest, like. Wait, I need to use your favourite buzzwords - they're 'idiotic' and 'stupid'.

The forecast was on the optimistic side, no more than that. The result of it was that PC was able to bring in players of the calibre of Morsy, Ryan, Evatt and Roberts. These are players we would be chuffed at signing now, so all we did was get the good stuff in a year early.
So this time we're a bit short of readies? Not a big deal, the most important part of the squad is signed up and ready to go. A new striker would be nice, but the way we're set up is to share the goals between the front four. Somebody to win and hold up the ball would be handy, but not necessarily a big money, big goals striker - Parkin or someone similar would do nicely.
Incidentally, what would you have said if the attendance had been underestimated, PC was left with rubbish and we'd finished up mid table? Forecasting is a difficult art, and the consequences are dramatic.

[Cartman]

h again, on 23 July 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:

The forecast was on the optimistic side, no more than that. The result of it was that PC was able to bring in players of the calibre of Morsy, Ryan, Evatt and Roberts. These are players we would be chuffed at signing now, so all we did was get the good stuff in a year early.
So this time we're a bit short of readies? Not a big deal, the most important part of the squad is signed up and ready to go. A new striker would be nice, but the way we're set up is to share the goals between the front four. Somebody to win and hold up the ball would be handy, but not necessarily a big money, big goals striker - Parkin or someone similar would do nicely.
Incidentally, what would you have said if the attendance had been underestimated, PC was left with rubbish and we'd finished up mid table? Forecasting is a difficult art, and the consequences are dramatic.

Disagree that Parkin would have been a viable option, he's gone to non league for a reason

The point on forecasts is a good one

Imagine the uproar on here if DA had forecasted 5k attendances and we had not signed half the players we did and ended up 8th!

[Spireite-Karl]

Cartman, on 23 July 2014 - 06:24 PM, said:

for the hundreth time, basing a forecast on what has gone before is normal and what is done in all businesses when predicting volume

Football is not like any other business though is it? Besides, I'm sure any business wouldn't forecast at the very top end and then proceed to overspend this when the forecast was nowhere near being met and then proceed. Surely only a glance at how the forecast was holding up would have set the alarm bells ringing and this would have been revised, not keep spending. Don’t you find that a tad worrying?

Basically either nobody had their eye on this OR DA thought the concerts would pull this back.

[Spireite-Karl]

h again, on 23 July 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:

The forecast was on the optimistic side, no more than that. The result of it was that PC was able to bring in players of the calibre of Morsy, Ryan, Evatt and Roberts. These are players we would be chuffed at signing now, so all we did was get the good stuff in a year early.
So this time we're a bit short of readies? Not a big deal, the most important part of the squad is signed up and ready to go. A new striker would be nice, but the way we're set up is to share the goals between the front four. Somebody to win and hold up the ball would be handy, but not necessarily a big money, big goals striker - Parkin or someone similar would do nicely.
Incidentally, what would you have said if the attendance had been underestimated, PC was left with rubbish and we'd finished up mid table? Forecasting is a difficult art, and the consequences are dramatic.

I'm sure PC agrees with you.