[ELTON 2020]

My main point here is:

Do we need a full time goalkeeping coach
What do all the other management people, cook and Richardson apart do? I mean the number of staff at the club compared to the McFarland days etc... Seems to have become bottom heavy. Do we need all this community village and employing people here.? For me, and its purely a speculative opinion, the club needs to concentrate on playing football on a Saturday with a youth team and all that goes into that, nothing else. The money saved can go on scouting and loan signings. My comments may sound a bit frank, but if things are that expensive, maybe a thought about costs, as well as revenues would clear the financial waters a little.

[DMU Blue]

Elton John 1866, on 21 July 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

My main point here is:

Do we need a full time goalkeeping coach
What do all the other management people, cook and Richardson apart do? I mean the number of staff at the club compared to the McFarland days etc... Seems to have become bottom heavy. Do we need all this community village and employing people here.? For me, and its purely a speculative opinion, the club needs to concentrate on playing football on a Saturday with a youth team and all that goes into that, nothing else. The money saved can go on scouting and loan signings. My comments may sound a bit frank, but if things are that expensive, maybe a thought about costs, as well as revenues would clear the financial waters a little.

If we have full time goalkeeping playing staff plus part time youth players then I'd say its fair to say we need a full time goalkeeping coach.

This post has been edited by DMU Blue: 21 July 2014 - 02:14 PM

[azul]

Turner just rattles figures of the top his head without thinking about consequences or how it comes across

I wouldn't take the 4x figure literally

ps: stadium costs don't include coaches, CEOs or Sponge Men with degrees

This post has been edited by azul: 21 July 2014 - 02:45 PM

[newboldsteve]

azul, on 21 July 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Turner just rattles figures of the top his head without thinking about consequences or how it comes across

I wouldn't take the 4x figure literally

ps: stadium costs don't include coaches, CEOs or Sponge Men with degrees

it wouldn't surprise me if it was 4x dearer we lay a new pitch every year but it takes in 100x

more money

[hewittfan]

I'm not convinced that we do need a full time goalkeeping coach. I don't know if that's what Eric Nixon is, but we've always managed without one before him - Mark Crossley was Reserve Team Manager, goalkeepers were only part of his remit.

[daveblakey]

hewittfan, on 21 July 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

I'm not convinced that we do need a full time goalkeeping coach. I don't know if that's what Eric Nixon is, but we've always managed without one before him - Mark Crossley was Reserve Team Manager, goalkeepers were only part of his remit.

Dave Thompson was chief scout and goalkeeper coach and washed the kit etc etc.

[firedodger]

Elton John 1866, on 21 July 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

My main point here is:

Do we need a full time goalkeeping coach
What do all the other management people, cook and Richardson apart do? I mean the number of staff at the club compared to the McFarland days etc... Seems to have become bottom heavy. Do we need all this community village and employing people here.? For me, and its purely a speculative opinion, the club needs to concentrate on playing football on a Saturday with a youth team and all that goes into that, nothing else. The money saved can go on scouting and loan signings. My comments may sound a bit frank, but if things are that expensive, maybe a thought about costs, as well as revenues would clear the financial waters a little.

Difficult really we are quite a small club with a limited budget, so questions will always be asked about how it's spent.
I agree the back room staff seems a bit large, I suppose we will only tell through the season if that represents good value for the club, if we can squeeze a bit extra out of what would appear to be a smallish squad, bring younger players through quicker, keep players fitter, unearth a few non league gems, get good money for players we have developed, only then will we see value in the back room staff.
As for the hub, I just don't know, I like the idea but I'm not sure we are getting the most out of it, there are some decent wages being paid into it.

[fishini]

Chesters den must must stay. Or my little en will be gunning for DA. Be afraid be very afraid

[dim view]

fishini, on 21 July 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:

Chesters den must must stay. Or my little en will be gunning for DA. Be afraid be very afraid

We can't all have big en's. Please don't take it out on DA.

[firedodger]

fishini, on 21 July 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:

Chesters den must must stay. Or my little en will be gunning for DA. Be afraid be very afraid

I can see that's paying it's way, my concern is with the gym and multi use rooms, gym membership was tiny last I heard, and are the rooms getting used? Are they making any money? Last I heard they were wanting to start all sorts of stuff up there, I know the sitting volleyball has gone what about the rest of it?

[Bonnyman]

DMU Blue, on 21 July 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

If we have full time goalkeeping playing staff plus part time youth players then I'd say its fair to say we need a full time goalkeeping coach.

No we don't unless nixon has to fulfill hours at the Academy , do we need a full time academy manager is a bigger question , if ever there was a part time job that is it, money for old rope.

[CloudBlue]

The gym is building slowly but surely, the hub has signed big deals with education/work providers to provide rooms at jaw dropping rates. All of the office space is rented out which helps. There are some really exciting plans happening at the hub and its a very under estimated asset. Sitting volleyball... Please.

[dalekpete]

Nothing in The Hub has any direct connection to the Club. The Trust is an independent Charity and the facilities set-up as part of the supporters hand-over of power are on a 99 year lease.

That lease allows a payment to the Club at two-percent over base-rate for the value of that lease but only when the Trustees determine that funds allow this.

Although the Club currently facilitates the payroll of the Trust this is met in full by the charity and a process has been put in place to sever this last working link between the Club and the Charity linked to Chesterfield FC.

The business plan for the Trust is based on the core business meeting the day-to-day running costs. Increased revenue being realised by growth in business usage (with little marginal cost) and by charity/community fund-raising adding value to the overall project.

The Trust might point out how much opportunity cost is absorbed by the "parent" business using various facilities in The Hub.

[dim view]

dalekpete, on 22 July 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

Nothing in The Hub has any direct connection to the Club. The Trust is an independent Charity and the facilities set-up as part of the supporters hand-over of power are on a 99 year lease.

That lease allows a payment to the Club at two-percent over base-rate for the value of that lease but only when the Trustees determine that funds allow this.

Although the Club currently facilitates the payroll of the Trust this is met in full by the charity and a process has been put in place to sever this last working link between the Club and the Charity linked to Chesterfield FC.

Morning Pete
Is the mortgage debt accruing year on year whilst it's not being paid off, and has the Trust got enough funds to pay the mortgage this year?.

[dim view]

dim view, on 22 July 2014 - 06:03 AM, said:

Morning Pete
Is the mortgage debt accruing year on year whilst it's not being paid off, and has the Trust got enough funds to pay the mortgage this year?.

Pete.
You may have missed this so I've bumped it. It occurs to me that if the Trust can get a mortgage from someone else, which should be easy bearing in mind the long term leases that have been signed, and the Trust's desire for independence; then it could pay back CFC a large 6 figure sum.

[dalekpete]

dim view, on 22 July 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

Pete.
You may have missed this so I've bumped it. It occurs to me that if the Trust can get a mortgage from someone else, which should be easy bearing in mind the long term leases that have been signed, and the Trust's desire for independence; then it could pay back CFC a large 6 figure sum.

I am not giving an official Trust or trustee response but:

Charities cannot usually borrow commercially in the same way as businesses. For this reason specific lender exist such as the Charity Bank which is where half the funds for the fit-out came from. These lenders offer money for specific purposes often capital rather than stepping in to replace other agreements.

The lease to the Trust results from the agreement with Mr Allen when the CFSS relinquished its final tranche of shares. The fact that there is a signed agreement and a monetary value is purely down to accounting practices. It suited both sides to do it this way as that lease is an asset for CFC(2001).

There is a rate of interest on the lease and this is accruing. However the agreement is that payments on the lease are only made when the Trustees deem that the charity is in a position to pay them. I am not sure any other "lenders" would be this accommodating.

Excepting the lease, there should be complete financial independence in a few months. However there will always be a symbiotic relationship between the two. The football club benefits from goodwill, footfall and sideways business (three conference bookings and one match sponsorship in the last month.) The club also is using the facilities including the gym, pool, classrooms, sports hall and meeting rooms on a daily basis. The Trust gets the football brand to promote its activities.

[dim view]

dalekpete, on 22 July 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

I am not giving an official Trust or trustee response but:

Charities cannot usually borrow commercially in the same way as businesses. For this reason specific lender exist such as the Charity Bank which is where half the funds for the fit-out came from. These lenders offer money for specific purposes often capital rather than stepping in to replace other agreements.

The lease to the Trust results from the agreement with Mr Allen when the CFSS relinquished its final tranche of shares. The fact that there is a signed agreement and a monetary value is purely down to accounting practices. It suited both sides to do it this way as that lease is an asset for CFC(2001).

There is a rate of interest on the lease and this is accruing. However the agreement is that payments on the lease are only made when the Trustees deem that the charity is in a position to pay them. I am not sure any other "lenders" would be this accommodating.

Excepting the lease, there should be complete financial independence in a few months. However there will always be a symbiotic relationship between the two. The football club benefits from goodwill, footfall and sideways business (three conference bookings and one match sponsorship in the last month.) The club also is using the facilities including the gym, pool, classrooms, sports hall and meeting rooms on a daily basis. The Trust gets the football brand to promote its activities.

sounds to me then that some relatively simple investigations could be carried out to see what products are out there. Also, I'm not happy that the Trustees alone can decide when to pay interest. This might lead to major conflict if one or more Trustees fall out with the club.

[dalekpete]

dim view, on 22 July 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:

sounds to me then that some relatively simple investigations could be carried out to see what products are out there. Also, I'm not happy that the Trustees alone can decide when to pay interest. This might lead to major conflict if one or more Trustees fall out with the club.

Having seen the hoops we had to go through just to get soft-loans from social lenders I cannot see any commercial outlet lending in a manner that suits the charity.

In terms of the payments to the Club, we are a Trust overseen by the Charity Commission and the debt is an actual one. The Commissioners would expect it to be paid if there were surplus funds and as the accounts are public anyone might ask questions at that point. There are usual disagreements among trustees as there is a balance between hitting outcomes and running like a business. However there are eight trustees so one or two disagreeing wouldn't mean an impasse.

[fishini]

dalekpete, on 22 July 2014 - 08:10 PM, said:

Having seen the hoops we had to go through just to get soft-loans from social lenders I cannot see any commercial outlet lending in a manner that suits the charity.

In terms of the payments to the Club, we are a Trust overseen by the Charity Commission and the debt is an actual one. The Commissioners would expect it to be paid if there were surplus funds and as the accounts are public anyone might ask questions at that point. There are usual disagreements among trustees as there is a balance between hitting outcomes and running like a business. However there are eight trustees so one or two disagreeing wouldn't mean an impasse.

All worth it for chesters alone IMHO

[dalekpete]

fishini, on 22 July 2014 - 08:35 PM, said:

All worth it for chesters alone IMHO

Les, with it being a small play-centre with all the extra space, and run by a charity, we are looking at how we can better serve children with special needs. Any advice from those using our facilities is welcome.