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If It Ain't Broke...

#1 User is offline   The Earl of Chesterfield 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 06:34 PM

Maybe I'm naïve, I dunno, but until today I've bought into the idea we're a damn good side who were top ten on merit and earned widespread plaudits for our attacking, entertaining, never-say-die ethos.

One win in six? Yeah, but that didn't tell the whole story: Oldham - shared the spoils with an upwardly mobile team awarded a controversial penno: Bristol City - universally applauded for pushing the runaway and unbeaten league leaders all the way: Blunts - could've been a real hammering but late goals dictated by circumstance flattered the visitors: Notts - only the brilliance of 'keeper Roy Carroll won the hard to beat County a point: Donny - rampant Town did everything but draw during a thrilling second half onslaught: PNE - ditto, but this time grabbed a fully deserved leveller.

Subsequently I was puzzled to hear Cook speak of issues within the camp and a supposed lack of balance after Saturday, bewilderment that's turned to genuine concern in the light of the last twenty four hours. Dropping our most creative player? A performance described by some as workmanlike? More comments inferring criticism of certain players? It's just not the CFC I've got used to over recent months.

I can understand if the Manager is seeking to snuff out the goals against, to become more solid as he suggested post Colchester, but in doing so I hope he remembers the old adage about not trying to mend something that isn't broken.
Spanish proverb: 'Pessimists are just well informed optimists'
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#2 User is offline   Spireite-Karl 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 06:40 PM

Sums it up for me Chris! It's far from broken as yet and certainly wouldn't have done what Cook did yesterday. All we need to do is learn to defend a little bit better and more points than not will come our way; it's no biggy as it stands. Going off the way he has will more than likely disrupt team morale and that’s been top draw thus far.
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#3 User is offline   Wooden Spoon 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 06:41 PM

View PostMDCCCLXVI, on 22 October 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

Maybe I'm naïve, I dunno, but until today I've bought into the idea we're a damn good side who were top ten on merit and earned widespread plaudits for our attacking, entertaining, never-say-die ethos.

One win in six? Yeah, but that didn't tell the whole story: Oldham - shared the spoils with an upwardly mobile team awarded a controversial penno: Bristol City - universally applauded for pushing the runaway and unbeaten league leaders all the way: Blunts - could've been a real hammering but late goals dictated by circumstance flattered the visitors: Notts - only the brilliance of 'keeper Roy Carroll won the hard to beat County a point: Donny - rampant Town did everything but draw during a thrilling second half onslaught: PNE - ditto, but this time grabbed a fully deserved leveller.

Subsequently I was puzzled to hear Cook speak of issues within the camp and a supposed lack of balance after Saturday, bewilderment that's turned to genuine concern in the light of the last twenty four hours. Dropping our most creative player? A performance described by some as workmanlike? More comments inferring criticism of certain players? It's just not the CFC I've got used to over recent months.

I can understand if the Manager is seeking to snuff out the goals against, to become more solid as he suggested post Colchester, but in doing so I hope he remembers the old adage about not trying to mend something that isn't broken.


I think there are 2 things going on

1) a manager concerned by goals conceded

2) A manager who is concerned about the departure of our loan player from Villa.



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#4 User is offline   Spireite-Karl 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 06:42 PM

View Posta kick in the balls, on 22 October 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

I think there are 2 things going on

1) a manager concerned by goals conceded

2) A manager who is concerned about the departure of our loan player from Villa.


3) I think you've hit the nail on the head!
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#5 User is offline   Forever a Spireite 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 06:51 PM

I'm a big cookie fan but since that bizarre substitution on Saturday things seem to have gone a bit daft! I listened to the game on Peak last nite and even with a naff commentator sounded like town did ok and cudnt do anything about the winner! We do need to tighten up that's for cooky to sort! Just hope nothing major has happened in the dressing room. Things like that have a habit of getting out of control! Come on PC most town fans trust and believe in you! I'm not panicking yet lol but we need some strong decisive management to nip it in the bud!
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#6 User is offline   Wooden Spoon 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 06:56 PM

View PostForever a Spireite, on 22 October 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:

We do need to tighten up that's for cooky to sort! Just hope nothing major has happened in the dressing room. Things like that have a habit of getting out of control!


IMO your reading far too much into it
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#7 User is offline   Forever a Spireite 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:02 PM

I hope I am!

I really hope I am!
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#8 User is offline   60s 70s Spireite 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:06 PM

View Posta kick in the balls, on 22 October 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

I think there are 2 things going on

1) a manager concerned by goals conceded

2) A manager who is concerned about the departure of our loan player from Villa.

Re number 2, in his pre match interview, Cook seemed to be in a fit of pique regarding Johnson having to return soon, almost as if hadn't realised it was so soon (surely not) or 'I will show the Chairman how much we need to replace him' or talks had opened with Villa about having him from January to the end of the season, and had been met with a firm 'no chance'.

I just don't understand why he couldn't keep starting with Johnson until his time is up. At worst he could have replaced him after say 70 minutes with his proposed replacement.

This post has been edited by 60s 70s Spireite: 22 October 2014 - 07:07 PM

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#9 User is offline   Dotty Com 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:06 PM

View PostMDCCCLXVI, on 22 October 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

Maybe I'm naïve, I dunno, but until today I've bought into the idea we're a damn good side who were top ten on merit and earned widespread plaudits for our attacking, entertaining, never-say-die ethos.

One win in six? Yeah, but that didn't tell the whole story: Oldham - shared the spoils with an upwardly mobile team awarded a controversial penno: Bristol City - universally applauded for pushing the runaway and unbeaten league leaders all the way: Blunts - could've been a real hammering but late goals dictated by circumstance flattered the visitors: Notts - only the brilliance of 'keeper Roy Carroll won the hard to beat County a point: Donny - rampant Town did everything but draw during a thrilling second half onslaught: PNE - ditto, but this time grabbed a fully deserved leveller.

Subsequently I was puzzled to hear Cook speak of issues within the camp and a supposed lack of balance after Saturday, bewilderment that's turned to genuine concern in the light of the last twenty four hours. Dropping our most creative player? A performance described by some as workmanlike? More comments inferring criticism of certain players? It's just not the CFC I've got used to over recent months.

I can understand if the Manager is seeking to snuff out the goals against, to become more solid as he suggested post Colchester, but in doing so I hope he remembers the old adage about not trying to mend something that isn't broken.


It's only broken in the sense that the wide men need to cover when the Full Backs break forward. They must be more than adequate re the tough defensive duty as we cannot afford Morsy or Ryan to get dragged out of position. Clucas and Boco seem to fit the bill, and Roberts has been working his bits off. Alas, O'Shea - it simply isn't his game.

This post has been edited by Dotty Com: 22 October 2014 - 07:08 PM

A triumph of hope over expectation
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#10 User is offline   Spireite-Karl 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:31 PM

View PostDotty Com, on 22 October 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

It's only broken in the sense that the wide men need to cover when the Full Backs break forward. They must be more than adequate re the tough defensive duty as we cannot afford Morsy or Ryan to get dragged out of position. Clucas and Boco seem to fit the bill, and Roberts has been working his bits off. Alas, O'Shea - it simply isn't his game.


I'm not sure I agree with that one. We have two defensive midfielders so naturally they have to muck in with defensive duties if the fullback is caught up field. Basically they have to tuck in to allow the fullback time to recover. Also with our attacking fullbacks not being so great defensively, they need to do a bit more for me. There is no reason to me why they shouldn't be required to help out more on their side of the pitch. IF we played with just the one holding midfielder then that would be different.

This post has been edited by Spireite-Karl: 22 October 2014 - 07:32 PM

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#11 User is offline   Phil V 72 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:53 PM

I don't think the changes required are huge, a few tweaks here and there should be enough to keep us out of trouble. I don't think we're a play off team, never have done but we may have enough to be top 10
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#12 User is offline   dim view 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:54 PM

View PostMDCCCLXVI, on 22 October 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

I hope he remembers the old adage about not trying to mend something that isn't broken....

...but the concession of poor goals throughout means summat has always been broken, masked up to recently by Doyle's prolific performances. The manager is right to be concerned. I would simply find a defensive midfielder to play behind Morsy and Ryan, and put them further up the pitch. Leaving 3 against 3 for their first goal last night was madness.
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#13 User is offline   Spireite-Karl 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:56 PM

View PostPhil V 72, on 22 October 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

I don't think the changes required are huge, a few tweaks here and there should be enough to keep us out of trouble. I don't think we're a play off team, never have done but we may have enough to be top 10


Agreed. Okay all teams would like to bolster their weaker positions with a player or two and we are no different; other than that a few tweaks as you say would suffice. Agree with Cook’s assessment that we don’t look right as a team out of possession (in possession, well that's a different matter as we look as good if not better than anyone in this league).
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#14 User is offline   lindave 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 08:05 PM

View PostForever a Spireite, on 22 October 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:

I'm a big cookie fan but since that bizarre substitution on Saturday things seem to have gone a bit daft! I listened to the game on Peak last nite and even with a naff commentator sounded like town did ok and cudnt do anything about the winner! We do need to tighten up that's for cooky to sort! Just hope nothing major has happened in the dressing room. Things like that have a habit of getting out of control! Come on PC most town fans trust and believe in you! I'm not panicking yet lol but we need some strong decisive management to nip it in the bud!



That's the one game so far this season when I came away gutted, It's frustrating to see our defence shipping in so many goals. Where has our bite gone,we seem to back pedal so much what's up with the old getting stuck in mentality.We get easily wrong footed and the lack of backup for the fullbacks has been our undoing on many occasions.For most of the first half last night all Colchester did was try to pump balls over the top.When we play with a fast tempo passing the ball around on the floor we can beat anybody,,with or without Roberts or Johnson (when these 2 are on song we can be unplayable.Apart from the wind makin life difficult for both teams, I think we contributed to our own downfall when we left out Johnno (why?, and played Banks ahead of Gardner (I think he could have been the perfect foil for Doyle,he nearly levelled the score in the last minute after a powerful run and shot brilliantly saved.It's no time to panic just yet,but we'll see if the players have the bottle and Cooke the tactical nouse to get us on a 3 match winning run before the cup break.(I believe they have).
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#15 User is offline   spireitetoo 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 08:25 PM

View PostMDCCCLXVI, on 22 October 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

Maybe I'm naïve, I dunno, but until today I've bought into the idea we're a damn good side who were top ten on merit and earned widespread plaudits for our attacking, entertaining, never-say-die ethos.

One win in six? Yeah, but that didn't tell the whole story: Oldham - shared the spoils with an upwardly mobile team awarded a controversial penno: Bristol City - universally applauded for pushing the runaway and unbeaten league leaders all the way: Blunts - could've been a real hammering but late goals dictated by circumstance flattered the visitors: Notts - only the brilliance of 'keeper Roy Carroll won the hard to beat County a point: Donny - rampant Town did everything but draw during a thrilling second half onslaught: PNE - ditto, but this time grabbed a fully deserved leveller.

Subsequently I was puzzled to hear Cook speak of issues within the camp and a supposed lack of balance after Saturday, bewilderment that's turned to genuine concern in the light of the last twenty four hours. Dropping our most creative player? A performance described by some as workmanlike? More comments inferring criticism of certain players? It's just not the CFC I've got used to over recent months.

I can understand if the Manager is seeking to snuff out the goals against, to become more solid as he suggested post Colchester, but in doing so I hope he remembers the old adage about not trying to mend something that isn't broken.

Shades of last season when we lost morsy and one or two more....he kept tinkering with the team trying different formations then, looks at the moment that he may start going down this route again ....lets hope he sees sense picks his best 11 each week and lets them play the football we are getting used to....the wins will come as we cut out the silly mistakes that have cost us....

This post has been edited by spireitetoo: 22 October 2014 - 08:25 PM

all we are saying, is give us ...a goal, or 2+
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#16 User is offline   Spireite-Karl 

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 09:57 PM

View Postspireitetoo, on 22 October 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Shades of last season when we lost morsy and one or two more....he kept tinkering with the team trying different formations then, looks at the moment that he may start going down this route again ....lets hope he sees sense picks his best 11 each week and lets them play the football we are getting used to....the wins will come as we cut out the silly mistakes that have cost us....



Spot on.. Learn to defend better (that's all the tinkering we need)
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#17 User is offline   JonB 

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 07:22 AM

View Postdim view, on 22 October 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

...but the concession of poor goals throughout means summat has always been broken, masked up to recently by Doyle's prolific performances. The manager is right to be concerned. I would simply find a defensive midfielder to play behind Morsy and Ryan, and put them further up the pitch. Leaving 3 against 3 for their first goal last night was madness.

Morsy and Ryan are the defensive midfielders....if you are playing someone behind them and moving them up the pitch i can only assume you are dropping the central attacking midfielder which either means we have more up the pitch as you have the two wingers and Morsy & Ryan further up the pitch which leaves us less defensive cover or we have three deep central midfielders so we dont get exposed then it leaves Doyle completely isolated as no one is central to push on near him unless the wingers come in to do it meaning we lose width.
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#18 User is offline   Half Full 

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 08:47 AM

I don't imagine Cook watched the Liverpool game through to the end but if he did he might have caught Jamie Carragher's analysis of Liverpool. Could have been talking about us in terms of the philosophy of attacking entertaining football with a weakness in defense. One point he made was that if a side is constantly conceding goals they begin to go into games expecting to concede which impacts on the teams approach. He was suggesting that in the short term they ought to be set up to focus on tightening the defensive part of the game to build defensive confidence back up. Might be that some of the earlier posts about playing Bocco could give that change in focus but still allow our attacking flair to be evident. We played well at Orient with him in the side and without Johnston at that time. (who I think we should play whilst we have him but I can understand Cook looking to see how he could be replaced and Colchester looked a game to experiment in)
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#19 User is offline   warfey is a spireite 

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 09:09 AM

View PostMDCCCLXVI, on 22 October 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

Maybe I'm naïve, I dunno, but until today I've bought into the idea we're a damn good side who were top ten on merit and earned widespread plaudits for our attacking, entertaining, never-say-die ethos.

One win in six? Yeah, but that didn't tell the whole story: Oldham - shared the spoils with an upwardly mobile team awarded a controversial penno: Bristol City - universally applauded for pushing the runaway and unbeaten league leaders all the way: Blunts - could've been a real hammering but late goals dictated by circumstance flattered the visitors: Notts - only the brilliance of 'keeper Roy Carroll won the hard to beat County a point: Donny - rampant Town did everything but draw during a thrilling second half onslaught: PNE - ditto, but this time grabbed a fully deserved leveller.

Subsequently I was puzzled to hear Cook speak of issues within the camp and a supposed lack of balance after Saturday, bewilderment that's turned to genuine concern in the light of the last twenty four hours. Dropping our most creative player? A performance described by some as workmanlike? More comments inferring criticism of certain players? It's just not the CFC I've got used to over recent months.

I can understand if the Manager is seeking to snuff out the goals against, to become more solid as he suggested post Colchester, but in doing so I hope he remembers the old adage about not trying to mend something that isn't broken.

IT AINT BROKE CHRIS MATE BUT ITS LIKE A CUP OF MINE CRACKED AND becoming very fragile
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#20 User is offline   newbold ken 

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 10:06 AM

View Postwarfey is a spireite, on 23 October 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

IT AINT BROKE CHRIS MATE BUT ITS LIKE A CUP OF MINE CRACKED AND becoming very fragile

That flasks seen better days as well lol!
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