[Bonnyman]

Goku, on 22 October 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

I'm not sure Morsy has the eye for a pass that Johnson has. You said it yourself - he's not a bad passer but he's predictable, I doubt he can consistently unlock a defence. Look at Johnson's pass for Doyle's goal against Scunthorpe for example, I think it was our equaliser. I doubt anyone in the stadium thought that pass was on at the time.

I know he hasn't got an eye for a pass most of his passes he hits with an open right foot but maybe his tenacity and drive could get him into good positions it's only a guess, maybe if banks played behind morsy we would then get to see his full range of passing from deeper without losing the bite.

[Goku]

bonnyman, on 22 October 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

I know he hasn't got an eye for a pass most of his passes he hits with an open right foot but maybe his tenacity and drive could get him into good positions it's only a guess, maybe if banks played behind morsy we would then get to see his full range of passing from deeper without losing the bite.

Not a bad shout. I'm not completely sold on Banks though, he's got to do a lot more to get me onside.

[brianclose]

bonnyman, on 22 October 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

I know he hasn't got an eye for a pass most of his passes he hits with an open right foot but maybe his tenacity and drive could get him into good positions it's only a guess, maybe if banks played behind morsy we would then get to see his full range of passing from deeper without losing the bite.

You might have something here bonny. Love it when Morsy drives into the box as in the first half v Oldham when he nearly won a pen. Should do more of it as it scares teams.

[azul]

Goku, on 22 October 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

Not a bad shout. I'm not completely sold on Banks though, he's got to do a lot more to get me onside.

Didn't you think he played well last season before his injury?

I thought he really looked the part

Hasn't really done it yet this season, accept scoring the stunning goal against Huddersfield with his fist touch in over 4 months and good performance at Doncaster for obvious reasons

[Goku]

azul, on 22 October 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

Didn't you think he played well last season before his injury?

I thought he really looked the part

Hasn't really done it yet this season, accept scoring the stunning goal against Huddersfield with his fist touch in over 4 months and good performance at Doncaster for obvious reasons

Ahhhh I dunno man, when you put it like that I feel bad for being critical. Last season he scored a decent amount of goals for his appearance tally if I recall correctly but... I know this is gonna sound harsh but I don't remember him impacting the game bar scoring said goals. Like, I know it's not a bad thing to have someone who can score but as a midfielder I expect him to impact the game in other ways as well. Admittedly he did play well at Donny but whenever I've seen him this season he hasn't impressed me much (I know he hasn't played as much as I'm sure he'd have liked). I'm certainly not writing him off or anything like that but I feel he needs to step it up a level and he's not alone in that, so do Gardner, O'Shea, Tendayi and Evatt (who is getting off easy for me due to his reputation) to name but a few.

[azul]

Goku, on 22 October 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

Ahhhh I dunno man, when you put it like that I feel bad for being critical. Last season he scored a decent amount of goals for his appearance tally if I recall correctly but... I know this is gonna sound harsh but I don't remember him impacting the game bar scoring said goals. Like, I know it's not a bad thing to have someone who can score but as a midfielder I expect him to impact the game in other ways as well. Admittedly he did play well at Donny but whenever I've seen him this season he hasn't impressed me much (I know he hasn't played as much as I'm sure he'd have liked). I'm certainly not writing him off or anything like that but I feel he needs to step it up a level and he's not alone in that, so do Gardner, O'Shea, Tendayi and Evatt (who is getting off easy for me due to his reputation) to name but a few.

I agree with those names, they do need to prove they are good enough for L1

As for Evatt, he's had his critics on here too and I hear no end of moaning behind me on match days. Ironic as it concerns his lack of pace. He never had any, that includes his first time at Chesterfield where he was converted to CD because he was too slow in midfield and his time in the premiership. I don't think he has slowed down significantly, it's just he needs complimented with a partner with some pace and full backs that aren't continually out of position because they've been asked (I assume) to bomb forward all the time.

[Goku]

I made this point in another thread but it doesn't help that both Evo and Margs want to get in front of the attacker all the time to stop the ball before they can control it and lay it off/turn/whatever. When it works it's great but when it doesn't it usually puts us in a pickle. Hird sometimes does this too but he's far more likely to drop off and cover and I think you need that in a two man CB partnership - a stopper and a coverer. I do like Margreitter though. "Who'd be a manager" etc etc.

[Tyrion]

We need the defence sorting ASAP, 1 clean sheet all season and the last one at home was March!!

[DMU Blue]

azul, on 22 October 2014 - 01:32 AM, said:

We left the ground happy after Bristol and even after Oldham. To the majority there was no downturn just a series of difficult games completed and a slightly disappointing points return

Now you are saying he attempted to rectify long standing defensive problems by replacing Johnson and Roberts with Banks and O'Shea.

You are right about some on here being laughable if you think that was what he was doing

I don't think O'Shea for Roberts is that surprising. I can also see the rational behind putting banks in for a bit of height in conditions that could quite easily have turned into a physical game.

However, I think I was referring to cook stating changes need to be made. They do, and we need them

[Nerima Spireite]

bonnyman, on 22 October 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

I'm not generalising and i'm not knocking banks either I'm talking about position specific players and I don't see banks as being the player that fills the role that johnson has made his own, the 2 players are like chalk and cheese johnson is nothing like banks in how he plays so I don't see how the 2 could interchange positions to simplify if johnson was Ronaldinho then banks would be more like Glen hoddle.....which throws up this question I don't see banks as a replacement for morsy but could he replace him if morsy was the player who replaced johnson?

Don't know about anyone else but if that's simplifying it, I'd hate to see you get complicated on me...

azul, on 22 October 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

Didn't you think he played well last season before his injury?

I thought he really looked the part

Hasn't really done it yet this season, accept scoring the stunning goal against Huddersfield with his fist touch in over 4 months and good performance at Doncaster for obvious reasons

'Fist touch'? Sure you're not getting mixed up with Maradona or Chloe? (I googled that btw)

Goku, on 22 October 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

Ahhhh I dunno man, when you put it like that I feel bad for being critical. Last season he scored a decent amount of goals for his appearance tally if I recall correctly but... I know this is gonna sound harsh but I don't remember him impacting the game bar scoring said goals. Like, I know it's not a bad thing to have someone who can score but as a midfielder I expect him to impact the game in other ways as well. Admittedly he did play well at Donny but whenever I've seen him this season he hasn't impressed me much (I know he hasn't played as much as I'm sure he'd have liked). I'm certainly not writing him off or anything like that but I feel he needs to step it up a level and he's not alone in that, so do Gardner, O'Shea, Tendayi and Evatt (who is getting off easy for me due to his reputation) to name but a few.

Always like Goku's humility on here. Some others should take note.

Fwiw, I would just add that Gardner and Banks need to be given a run in the team before being slated for inconsistency.

[Bonnyman]

brianclose, on 22 October 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

You might have something here bonny. Love it when Morsy drives into the box as in the first half v Oldham when he nearly won a pen. Should do more of it as it scares teams.

That's what I'm saying..This week the 2 main talking points are who replaces morsy and who replaces johnson, well the morsy replacement isn't even a concern the johnson one is, earlier in the week I didn't fancy banks as a holding midfielder(morsy replacement) but if he was in the same 11 as morsy then perhaps it makes for a viable option, banks has a good range of passing but I don't see him as a sharp 1 / 2 passer of the ball in the final 3rd he isn't dynamic, but if you dropped him in and asked him to use his full range it may add a different dimension , Morsy may relish getting the ball higher up the pitch you absolutely know it's going to stick and sometimes we have lacked a bit of brute force up top.

This post has been edited by bonnyman: 22 October 2014 - 01:14 PM

[Wooden Spoon]

azul, on 22 October 2014 - 01:53 AM, said:

So who do you think he suddenly realises, isn't up to the job

RB is an issue at times, and I`m feeling JOS needs to up his work rate. I wouldn't be surprised to see Boco back on the right hand side on saturday

[BlueRover52]

Tyrion, on 22 October 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

We need the defence sorting ASAP, 1 clean sheet all season and the last one at home was March!!

Thats the crux of the matter.We can create chances but we don't take enough to win games.Get the defence right and in that I mean defending as a unit and we won't lose as many games.Open attacking football is great to watch but very frustrating when we can't defend and clinch the results we all know we should be capable of.This season is no different to the last when it comes to defending.We can't defend against deadball situations into our box,Everytime we concede a corner it's "squeaky bum time".The attractive,keep possesion,game is blinding us to other aspects of our game.Now Cookie has woken up and admitted as such lets see what the maestro comes up with as a solution.

[Spireite-Karl]

BlueRover52, on 22 October 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

Thats the crux of the matter.We can create chances but we don't take enough to win games.Get the defence right and in that I mean defending as a unit and we won't lose as many games.Open attacking football is great to watch but very frustrating when we can't defend and clinch the results we all know we should be capable of.This season is no different to the last when it comes to defending.We can't defend against deadball situations into our box,Everytime we concede a corner it's "squeaky bum time".The attractive,keep possesion,game is blinding us to other aspects of our game.Now Cookie has woken up and admitted as such lets see what the maestro comes up with as a solution.

IMO three simple steps to make the defence much more efficient...

1) Stop the crosses at source (we are poor at this) and we don't defend crosses well when they come over, so stop the bl**dy things at source (TD is particularly guilty of this, though not all his fault, see 3).
2) Somebody got it spot-on when then said our central defenders DON'T work as a pair... They both attack the ball when one should sit. I don't care which one does which, but it needs sorting as we look embarrassing at times.
3) We have TWO holding midfielders and we struggle defensive wise with our fullbacks bombing on, so surely we have ample personnel in the defensive midfield holding roles to help our fullbacks out more.

[Spireite-Karl]

dtp, on 22 October 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

My thoughts are that playing away from home, in particular, you need to be defensively aware.

It has already been stated that Clucas combines well with Jones. This partnership could be allowed to mature but, if so, could be at the expense of Roberts!!

The best partnership on the right that I have seen amongst existing staff is DT behind TD but that isn't available to us yet. However, I do feel Boco has shown good defensive qualities in front of TD. Neither O'Shea or Gardner provide much in this department and I was somewhat surprised that PC chose O'Shea for this role knowing that Sanchez Watts is no slouch.

Then, I sometimes wonder, even though we think they are good as a pair, how well our defensive two of JR. and SM are protecting our Centre Backs. I've felt JR is tiring badly in the last half hour recently and we often concede late.

There is obviously something not quite right. PC is blaming the balance in the team but he assembled it!

Every department needs to come under scrutiny because we leak goals from most positions and not just one as some would like to believe.

Similarly, for all our possession attacking wise we can sometimes appear quite wasteful and this is not all down to poor crossing.

The other conundrum is that we are playing some excellent football with every member of the team contributing to this. Quite a problem but one I am confident we will come through.

dtp, on 22 October 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

JS successfully played Jack Lester at home but not away - so yes.

We are constantly told it is a squad game and every member of the squad has different attributes - draw away and win at home has always been a recipe for success.

To play different systems requires different types of players and, sometimes, different systems are required for different games and can be required during a game - for instance, the Morsey Ryan partnership is reputed to be good if they both sit together but I don't think it is good in a 4-4-2. PC has an unbalanced squad because he has signed players just to play his preferred system of 4-2-3-1 and overloaded with attacking midfielders of different attributes whilst leaving us short on defenders, defensive midfielders (especially one that fits a 4-4-2) and strikers.

Under the JS system the much criticised MA provided cover for both full backs and shielded the centre backs whilst PC has two midfielders on defensive duties but they both remain very central thus allowing the opposition a lot of space behind our marauding full backs.

It's all about opinions but they are some of mine.

As good a posts as I've read on here for many a while and some very good points well made.

[Wooden Spoon]

Spireite-Karl, on 22 October 2014 - 04:39 PM, said:

IMO three simple steps to make the defence much more efficient...

1) Stop the crosses at source (we are poor at this) and we don't defend crosses well when they come over, so stop the bl**dy things at source (TD is particularly guilty of this, though not all his fault, see 3).
2) Somebody got it spot-on when then said our central defenders DON'T work as a pair... They both attack the ball when one should sit. I don't care which one does which, but it needs sorting as we look embarrassing at times.
3) We have TWO holding midfielders and we struggle defensive wise with our fullbacks bombing on, so surely we have ample personnel in the defensive midfield holding roles to help our fullbacks out more.

Cook made a mistake swapping Clucas and JOS over. They made a change at HT, bringing on the fella who got the first and going 4-4-2 and attacking down the right.

As pointed out above, Boco would have given some cover to the RB, and worked as a pair just as Clucas and Jones do. This would also help to stop crosses at source as you correctly point out in 1)

Evatt shouldn't attack the ball. He is better staying deeper and attacking the ball in the air. Let Margrietter do it

[Spireite-Karl]

a kick in the balls, on 22 October 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

Cook made a mistake swapping Clucas and JOS over. They made a change at HT, bringing on the fella who got the first and going 4-4-2 and attacking down the right.

As pointed out above, Boco would have given some cover to the RB, and worked as a pair just as Clucas and Jones do. This would also help to stop crosses at source as you correctly point out in 1)

Evatt shouldn't attack the ball. He is better staying deeper and attacking the ball in the air. Let Margrietter do it

Agreed with all your points, and would much sooner Magreitter attack the ball as you say; though as long as they have an understanding to who does what it would help massively whoever does it. The only other thing to consider if Evatt was the one who attacked the ball is that Magreitter has more pace as the last defender to sweep up. As you say I think the former would probably work better, though if it doesn't then the other is well worth trying; either way to do nothing to me is not an option as we get done far too easily at times.

[Dotty Com]

Thinking outside the box!

Low hanging fruit?

Practice a range of free kick and corner routines - right now when you've see one CFC corner you've seen them all.

Team selection (assuming Roberts is out)

Lee

Raglan Evatt George Jones

Ryan Morsy

Boco Gardner Clucas

Doyle

Boco and Clucas would provide more cover for attacking Full Backs.

Raglan is good on the ball and frankly couldn't be worse than Darikwa.

Darikwa to compete/be developed re the wide attacking role - however, his use of the ball really hasnt improved.

This post has been edited by Dotty Com: 22 October 2014 - 05:16 PM

[dim view]

Spireite-Karl, on 22 October 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

Agreed with all your points, and would much sooner Magreitter attack the ball as you say; though as long as they have an understanding to who does what it would help massively whoever does it. The only other thing to consider if Evatt was the one who attacked the ball is that Magreitter has more pace as the last defender to sweep up. As you say I think the former would probably work better, though if it doesn't then the other is well worth trying; either way to do nothing to me is not an option as we get done far too easily at times.

First goal : Tendayi follows his man right into their half. Five, yes 5, of our players are level with Tendayi. All 6 of our players get taken out by a deft body swerve by Tendayi's man, who then has a vast space to run in to and 3 of his teammates ahead of him, marked very loosely by only 3 of our defenders. A clever bit of movement and their man is free of Evatt for a good cross shot. My verdict : at a crucial stage of the game, it's the organisation of the shape, not any individual, that's at fault unless you blame the captain/vice captain for a lack of awareness. The key question is why Morsy and Ryan were both left stranded so far up field when Tendayi at no time had the ball.

Second goal : Simple. Evatt too deep (again) allowing their man far too much space near our goal. Great shot.

[BlueRover52]

Spireite-Karl, on 22 October 2014 - 04:39 PM, said:

IMO three simple steps to make the defence much more efficient...

1) Stop the crosses at source (we are poor at this) and we don't defend crosses well when they come over, so stop the bl**dy things at source (TD is particularly guilty of this, though not all his fault, see 3).
2) Somebody got it spot-on when then said our central defenders DON'T work as a pair... They both attack the ball when one should sit. I don't care which one does which, but it needs sorting as we look embarrassing at times.
3) We have TWO holding midfielders and we struggle defensive wise with our fullbacks bombing on, so surely we have ample personnel in the defensive midfield holding roles to help our fullbacks out more.

Ryan covers a heck of a lot of ground including defensive covering but it's seems more "instinctive" rather than organised