[danblue]

hilly81, on 18 October 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:

Didn't he absolutely school Hird while playing for Crewe or someone in the not to distant past?

I just remember thinking that he's an absolute beast.
Don't think he scored, had chances tho.

I said at the time, if he can improve on his finishing, he'll give defenders major probs.

[Bonnyman]

Bowzer spirey, on 18 October 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

My beef is that O'Grady to me at least, is a clone of SEB. Very good at holding the ball up, and flick ons, but not much else. In fact I think SEB was probably more of a goal scorer.

I would have preferred a taller striker to partner Dennis, it's a pity Wilkinson was so injury prone as I could see the promise of a good partnership there.

I guess Jack can see the problems and we will just have to wait until January for him to implement his ideas.

A clone apart from one being a goalscorer (blake) and the other not.

[Snowflake McBedwetter]

Albert Holmes Slides In, on 18 October 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

I don't want to rain on everybody's parade and I'm delighted we won and scored two goals but .......

Hird and Evatt are two of our best players, but they are terminally slow in combination. Occasionally they'll come up against forwards who don't exploit their lack of pace, but mostly a quick forward will see the space in behind them and go for it. One good answer is to protect them with a defensive midfielder (or two) to give the defence depth and pose opposition forwards with a bigger problem. Which we apparently did!

My question would be whether last night's selections inspire confidence that they can keep out the opposition well enough to get us through to the January window, still in touch. If you even look down at the Vanarama several clubs are fielding strong six footers in defensive midfield roles, guys who you could draft into centre back in an emergency. We haven't got that ........ have we?

I feel like I'm saying I'm glad we played well and managed a bit of genuine football, but might this just be a temporary solution that better opposition might test beyond breaking point?

[Albert Holmes Slides In]

60s 70s Spireite, on 18 October 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

Good test coming up Saturday, someone who has usually impressed against us, Uche Ikepeazu.
Regarding the centre backs, fact is we don't see many speedy central defenders at this level. Likely it goes back to their early days, 'you're big, but slow, good header, gets this number five shirt on'. We see every week central defenders who don't like being run at, and, with Jack's tactics and more confident squad, we look now to be making the most of the option.

I sort of take your point that centre backs aren't always quick at our level, but there's slow and then there's ARAF ARAF ARAF! Neither of ours can run or turn, so if they play together they do need protection as results have shown. My solution would be to play Hird just in front of the back four. He can use the ball better than most of our current midfield, can tackle, read the game and win a defensive header - we don't need him to run and if he has to turn he has already failed to do his job. But then you see my only doubt about Maguire would be people filling his head with doubts. If we don't move his career forward sharpish we won't know whether to pick, Willock, Hand or Fowler instead ...

Last night we won with a getting-away-with-it defence. Nobody would really want to have that defence or that keeper, even though they did well.

[Snowflake McBedwetter]

Albert Holmes Slides In, on 18 October 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

I sort of take your point that centre backs aren't always quick at our level, but there's slow and then there's ARAF ARAF ARAF! Neither of ours can run or turn, so if they play together they do need protection as results have shown. My solution would be to play Hird just in front of the back four. He can use the ball better than most of our current midfield, can tackle, read the game and win a defensive header - we don't need him to run and if he has to turn he has already failed to do his job. But then you see my only doubt about Maguire would be people filling his head with doubts. If we don't move his career forward sharpish we won't know whether to pick, Willock, Hand or Fowler instead ...

Last night we won with a getting-away-with-it defence. Nobody would really want to have that defence or that keeper, even though they did well.

'Centre backs aren't always quick at our level'. No Bunkum Sherlock. Or at any other level really. And Evo has always been slow, even when he played in the Prem. He makes up for it by reading the game, being a colossus in stature, and giving 100%.

We win, fairly comfortably, when we FINALLY get our best two CB's playing at.... (drum roll) centre back; and you want to change it!!! Cripes!

Good job we've finally got a manager who rejects half baked ideas like yours and those employed by Saunders and Caldwell. I'll take a round peg in a round hole any day.

[Albert Holmes Slides In]

Only a loser would only change a losing side.

Jack apparently detailed two players to screen our centre backs. I think one good one would be better. Hird and Evatt are both decent players; I can't say that about one of their screeners, that's all.

I'm pretty sure Hird would be much better than Gary Liddle at the job we got Liddle for.

I wouldn't pair Maguire with either Hird or Wiseman. I would pair him with Evatt. That combination would still be short of pace, so you have to add depth to stop a forward thinking all he has to do is to get to the space in behind the centre backs. It's just how you play the simple game of football. And why that centre back combination has failed more often than it has succeeded for the past two years.

This post has been edited by Albert Holmes Slides In: 18 October 2017 - 03:53 PM

[Snowflake McBedwetter]

Albert Holmes Slides In, on 18 October 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

Only a loser would only change a losing side.

Jack apparently detailed two players to screen our centre backs. I think one good one would be better. Hird and Evatt are both decent players; I can't say that about one of their screeners, that's all.

I'm pretty sure Hird would be much better than Gary Liddle at the job we got Liddle for.

I wouldn't pair Maguire with either Hird or Wiseman. I would pair him with Evatt. That combination would still be short of pace, so you have to add depth to stop a forward thinking all he has to do is to get to the space in behind the centre backs. It's just how you play the simple game of football. And why that centre back combination has failed more often than it has succeeded for the past two years.

I'm not against change. It's just that you want to replace a good CB with a guy who is in no way ready imo. I don't see the sense in weakening our CB pairing.

The team has failed for two years because it has not been good enough. Our two CB's are not responsible for our shocking midfield that has left them constantly exposed.

[dim view]

Albert Holmes Slides In, on 18 October 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

Jack apparently detailed two players to screen our centre backs.

Where or who did you get that from?
The CM's aren't in to screen CB's. They are in to mark their own allotted opponents.
I think this will all boil down to the mess we will be in if and when Evo is not available. All other combinations are adequate if Evo is playing and inadequate if he isn't.

[moondog]

Chesterfield are a good team - Harry Kewell

http://www.westsusse...-team-1-8207856

[Spire-Power]

Is there an element of him making excuses in that? By all accounts we played well but we are where we deserve to be atm and the win was a surprise to most of us

[ELTON 2020]

moondog, on 20 October 2017 - 05:47 PM, said:

Chesterfield are a good team - Harry Kewell

http://www.westsusse...-team-1-8207856

Didn't Russell say words to this effect in August?

[whittman]

Steve Kendall 1982, on 20 October 2017 - 06:49 PM, said:

Didn't Russell say words to this effect in August?

I know a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then but if we had taken the lead in that match against Grimsby after dominating the first 20 minutes the season might have taken a completely different direction

Just saying

[Spire-Power]

whittman, on 20 October 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

I know a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then but if we had taken the lead in that match against Grimsby after dominating the first 20 minutes the season might have taken a completely different direction

Just saying

Possibly. We looked good in large parts of the game when attacking but the midfield defensive frailties did for us. Cant help but feel if we had won that we would have faltered soon afterwards cos of said frailties and I will be amazed if the problem is cured before January