Bob's Board - Chesterfield FC: Grammars Get £100K Govt Cash For Each New Child Admitted - Bob's Board - Chesterfield FC

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Grammars Get £100K Govt Cash For Each New Child Admitted Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   dart in the crossbar 

  • First Team Player
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,514
  • Joined: 09-June 11

Posted 23 April 2019 - 07:56 PM

Over the Easter weekend the government department that funds schools quietly released a report into the £49.3 million of government cash that was given to a handful of grammar schools to increase the number of pupils that they admit from poorer backgrounds. In their blurb the government states that the funding creates more that 2700 extra places for poor pupils at those school.

The sums suggest that the government is spending around £18k to buy each new place. The government report that the plan of one of the handful of grammar schools that bagged the cash is to aim an extra 30 places in September 2020. If that school received an equal share of the cash, each place would work out at over £100K. Interestingly that school included in its plan of action that it would lower the pass score for poor pupils so that more make the lowered grade.

I believe that regular schools get around £2K of extra cash for each poor pupil that they admit and that the staff at those schools don't have the luxury of altering the pass mark for poor pupils. In fact I believe that staff in regular schools stand to get sacked if they try to make any changes to the way in which their children fare in the exams.
3

#2 User is online   isleaiw1 

  • Key Player
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 7,974
  • Joined: 04-March 15

Posted 25 April 2019 - 04:06 PM

View Postdart in the crossbar, on 23 April 2019 - 07:56 PM, said:

Over the Easter weekend the government department that funds schools quietly released a report into the £49.3 million of government cash that was given to a handful of grammar schools to increase the number of pupils that they admit from poorer backgrounds. In their blurb the government states that the funding creates more that 2700 extra places for poor pupils at those school.

The sums suggest that the government is spending around £18k to buy each new place. The government report that the plan of one of the handful of grammar schools that bagged the cash is to aim an extra 30 places in September 2020. If that school received an equal share of the cash, each place would work out at over £100K. Interestingly that school included in its plan of action that it would lower the pass score for poor pupils so that more make the lowered grade.

I believe that regular schools get around £2K of extra cash for each poor pupil that they admit and that the staff at those schools don't have the luxury of altering the pass mark for poor pupils. In fact I believe that staff in regular schools stand to get sacked if they try to make any changes to the way in which their children fare in the exams.


So are you for or against the attempt to open the door to better schools (allegedly) to more pupils who wouldn't otherwise get in? And if not why not?
Stay Home. Stay Safe.
-1

#3 User is offline   fishini 

  • Legend
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 23,692
  • Joined: 06-June 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bolsover
  • Interests:To be nice to my fellow spireites

Posted 25 April 2019 - 04:58 PM

View Postisleaiw1, on 25 April 2019 - 04:06 PM, said:

So are you for or against the attempt to open the door to better schools (allegedly) to more pupils who wouldn't otherwise get in? And if not why not?

So what you are saying then is if you are good enough but poor then you can't access better schools? Should this not be a basic right and not dependant whether you're rich or poor?
DONATE
SAVE A LIFE
0

#4 User is offline   Wooden Spoon 

  • Legend
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 42,638
  • Joined: 07-June 05
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 April 2019 - 05:33 PM

fishini said:

1556211536[/url]' post='1464621']
So what you are saying then is if you are good enough but poor then you can't access better schools? Should this not be a basic right and not dependant whether you're rich or poor?


That’s not really what he said is it.
A new hope.
0

#5 User is online   Westbars Spireite 

  • Legend
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 63,283
  • Joined: 18-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chesterfield, Derbyshire
  • Interests:Chesterfield FC, cricket, beer

Posted 25 April 2019 - 05:38 PM

View PostDEATH, on 25 April 2019 - 05:33 PM, said:

That’s not really what he said is it.


Not even close.
0

#6 User is offline   fishini 

  • Legend
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 23,692
  • Joined: 06-June 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bolsover
  • Interests:To be nice to my fellow spireites

Posted 25 April 2019 - 05:56 PM

View PostDEATH, on 25 April 2019 - 05:33 PM, said:

That’s not really what he said is it.

OK then why should money be put into schools to make room for the poorer children? Are these private schools or state grammars?
DONATE
SAVE A LIFE
0

#7 User is online   Westbars Spireite 

  • Legend
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 63,283
  • Joined: 18-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chesterfield, Derbyshire
  • Interests:Chesterfield FC, cricket, beer

Posted 25 April 2019 - 06:05 PM

View Postfishini, on 25 April 2019 - 05:56 PM, said:

OK then why should money be put into schools to make room for the poorer children? Are these private schools or state grammars?


To give kids from disadvantaged backgrounds the chance to reach their potential.
0

#8 User is offline   fishini 

  • Legend
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 23,692
  • Joined: 06-June 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bolsover
  • Interests:To be nice to my fellow spireites

Posted 25 April 2019 - 06:35 PM

View PostWestbars Spireite, on 25 April 2019 - 06:05 PM, said:

To give kids from disadvantaged backgrounds the chance to reach their potential.

Should not all children irrespective of their backgrounds have the same chance to reach their potential?

This post has been edited by fishini: 25 April 2019 - 06:35 PM

DONATE
SAVE A LIFE
0

#9 User is online   Westbars Spireite 

  • Legend
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 63,283
  • Joined: 18-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chesterfield, Derbyshire
  • Interests:Chesterfield FC, cricket, beer

Posted 25 April 2019 - 07:04 PM

View Postfishini, on 25 April 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

Should not all children irrespective of their backgrounds have the same chance to reach their potential?


They don't, hence this.
0

#10 User is offline   fishini 

  • Legend
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 23,692
  • Joined: 06-June 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bolsover
  • Interests:To be nice to my fellow spireites

Posted 25 April 2019 - 07:14 PM

View PostWestbars Spireite, on 25 April 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:

They don't, hence this.

So in our society rich kids are held in higher esteem than poor ones? It's not about how clever you are but more about the size of your bank account
DONATE
SAVE A LIFE
0

#11 User is online   Westbars Spireite 

  • Legend
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 63,283
  • Joined: 18-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chesterfield, Derbyshire
  • Interests:Chesterfield FC, cricket, beer

Posted 25 April 2019 - 07:18 PM

View Postfishini, on 25 April 2019 - 07:14 PM, said:

So in our society rich kids are held in higher esteem than poor ones? It's not about how clever you are but more about the size of your bank account


Have you read it?
0

#12 User is offline   Wooden Spoon 

  • Legend
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 42,638
  • Joined: 07-June 05
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 April 2019 - 09:55 PM

View Postfishini, on 25 April 2019 - 07:14 PM, said:

So in our society rich kids are held in higher esteem than poor ones? It's not about how clever you are but more about the size of your bank account

It doesn’t say that either.
A new hope.
0

#13 User is offline   jack'smyboy 

  • First Team Player
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,883
  • Joined: 08-June 12

Posted 26 April 2019 - 09:37 AM

View Postdart in the crossbar, on 23 April 2019 - 07:56 PM, said:

Over the Easter weekend the government department that funds schools quietly released a report into the £49.3 million of government cash that was given to a handful of grammar schools to increase the number of pupils that they admit from poorer backgrounds. In their blurb the government states that the funding creates more that 2700 extra places for poor pupils at those school.

The sums suggest that the government is spending around £18k to buy each new place. The government report that the plan of one of the handful of grammar schools that bagged the cash is to aim an extra 30 places in September 2020. If that school received an equal share of the cash, each place would work out at over £100K. Interestingly that school included in its plan of action that it would lower the pass score for poor pupils so that more make the lowered grade.

I believe that regular schools get around £2K of extra cash for each poor pupil that they admit and that the staff at those schools don't have the luxury of altering the pass mark for poor pupils. In fact I believe that staff in regular schools stand to get sacked if they try to make any changes to the way in which their children fare in the exams.


The 'lowered grade' is the target pass mark required on the 11+ for a child from a poorer background, not a change to the child's grade. A recognition by the school that children of better off parents can, and do, pay for private tutoring to get their child a place. Not sure why you think the school is doing something dodgy.

Also, Don't forget that Pupil Premium you've mentioned is in addition to the main per pupil funding a school gets, which is, I believe is and average of £6,200 at secondary. If you take on an addition 30 pupils, that is an extra class you have to provide room for within the school. In some schools that might be clearing out an unused room and fitting it out, for others it might involve building one.

I'm not trying to make out the money spent has been good value and couldn't have been better used elsewhere in the education system, but I can see how the figures are so high.

I wonder how many of those grammars will use the funds to build extra facilities, then go back to their previous intake rules as soon as they possibly can.
0

#14 User is offline   jack'smyboy 

  • First Team Player
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,883
  • Joined: 08-June 12

Posted 26 April 2019 - 09:51 AM

View Postfishini, on 25 April 2019 - 05:56 PM, said:

OK then why should money be put into schools to make room for the poorer children? Are these private schools or state grammars?


State grammars, the ones where well off parents can pay to have their children coached for their 11+/Entry Exam. Grammar lowers the marks required for those pupils with parents unable to afford coaching, bright kid of poor parents then get a fair crack at getting into a grammar. School offers 30 more places so that pupils that would have previously got in, still do.

Is it really that difficult to understand?
0

#15 User is online   isleaiw1 

  • Key Player
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 7,974
  • Joined: 04-March 15

Posted 26 April 2019 - 10:30 AM

I believe every child should be able to fulfill their potential. I also know that kids from better off households tend to have more opportunities (private tutors being one of them) to get them ready for these tests that then determine their future. I also believe that some children have higher aspirations as they see what can be achieved, they have more help around them (two parents, parents who aren't at work when they are doing homework or need to be helped with reading etc) - often not the choice of the parent(s) but a fact of life because of where the parent is in life.

I wish every school could give every kid the perfect education but having been in an unstreamed comp system myself, I also realise that alot of the time, there are kids who dont want to learn who distract those who do, and sometimes even tempt good kids away from the right path into one that will be worse for their education and future.

So I think anything that helps kids from a more deprived background (financially or time wise) to get into places that will help them improve and move on to better things should be encouraged.

I hate private schools. They seem to be a badge of honour for many. The tax rate on them should be doubled to put more money into state education. They also shouldnt qualify for charitable status which some seem to...

My dad was a Bevin boy sent in the pit in the war. He was quite bright, went to Barnsley grammar in his day. I was lucky. I inherited his brains and had some great teachers who encouraged me (as well as parents who supported it) so I did alright (although a few years at Shirebrook were testing...) and now I have a decent job. My kids went to the local school - ok, we moved house to get them in at Brookfield as it was supposed to be the best non religous or fee paying school in the area. I believe I am one of the lucky ones and much of that is down to being fortunate about my parents - but also the teachers and schools i went to. Mr Rhodes at New Bolsover (anyone remember him - games teacher) was probably THE biggest reason why I did ok, he pushed us to do more, got our confidence up and then when I got to Shirebrook I realised I was still pretty good - which encourages you further.

So yes, if they have to throw some money at it, fiddle a pass mark, and it helps a few kids progress and better themselves - do it. Its not a political thing, as some try to make it, its about caring...
Stay Home. Stay Safe.
0

#16 User is online   Westbars Spireite 

  • Legend
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 63,283
  • Joined: 18-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chesterfield, Derbyshire
  • Interests:Chesterfield FC, cricket, beer

Posted 26 April 2019 - 03:48 PM

In his haste to be argumentative Fishini seemed to misunderstand. Perhaps he'll pop by with his considered views again.
0

#17 User is offline   dart in the crossbar 

  • First Team Player
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,514
  • Joined: 09-June 11

Posted 26 April 2019 - 04:16 PM

The grammar schools are not private schools, they are state funded schools. As such the schools will also receive a level of state funding per child anyway. As pupil premium funding is triggered by a 6 year history of free school meals by pupils, the grammars would also pupil premium funding too for these 'poor' pupils.

These state funded grammar schools will get the extra cash as a bonus on top of the funding that non-selective state schools would receive. Sounds like win win for these schools.

As it is state funded grammar schools, the deal is only on offer in those parts of England where such schools exist. The bonus cash isn't available to any schools or families in Derbyshire.

and there's more government cash on offer too!

here is the link : https://www.gov.uk/g...ns-2018-to-2019
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users