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Iraq.. After allied troops leave! Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is online   Mr Mercury 

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 09:19 PM

Well after hundreds of decent UK and USA soldiers died liberating the country from Saddam, then left the Iraqi army to look after the country, it descends into chaos, murder and bloodshed..
Who'd have thought it?
Well at least Afghanistan will be a solid, self governed state, when we all leave, won't it?
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#2 User is offline   Wooden Spoon 

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 12:13 AM

View PostMr Mercury, on 13 June 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:

Well after hundreds of decent UK and USA soldiers died liberating the country from Saddam, then left the Iraqi army to look after the country, it descends into chaos, murder and bloodshed..
Who'd have thought it?
Well at least Afghanistan will be a solid, self governed state, when we all leave, won't it?



the whole middle east could go up in flames if the world is not carefull. there is a lot of sectarianism within Islam and the middle east, and the countries we know/recognise were drawn on a map by the French and British without taking into consideration the ethnic/cultural/religious divisions.

So far, ruthless dictators or military regimes have managed to keep things in check. Now, with the "introduction of democracy" and the removal of the authoritian regimes the people and the extremists have fractured into ethnic groups. If Iraq breaks up it will be into 3 states - A Kurdish state in the north (potentially destabilising Turkey) one being allied to Iran (very dangerous) and one smaller state which will need support and possibly get it from the Saudi regime to counter Iranian influence.

Even worse - its reported that 400+ British Muslims are part of the ISIS organisation. responsible for some terrible war crimes. Al Jazeera have some very troublesome reports from there.

Afghanistan will fall straight back into civil war with a western supported regime against the Taliban and possibly draw Pakistan into it and leave the potential for an extremist rise/take over there as well.

North African regimes are already being troubled by groups like the Muslim Brotherhood.

Imagine if, in response to Iran, an extremist Sunni group toppled the Saudi royal family. Iran, Syria, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, all under Islamic extremists? A horrific thought.




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#3 User is offline   Phil V 72 

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 05:32 AM

Like it or not, "democracy" isn't good for this region.

Saddam, who committed terrible acts against his people understood that fear and threat of violence was effective in keeping order.

Iraq will not return to order until the next dictator takes control.

The types of people taking control of Iraq are the same 'rebels' who we wanted to support in Syria.

Madness
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#4 User is offline   Wooden Spoon 

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:11 AM

View PostPhil V 72, on 14 June 2014 - 05:32 AM, said:

Like it or not, "democracy" isn't good for this region.

Saddam, who committed terrible acts against his people understood that fear and threat of violence was effective in keeping order.

Iraq will not return to order until the next dictator takes control.

The types of people taking control of Iraq are the same 'rebels' who we wanted to support in Syria.

Madness

I wonder if the west will now support Assad?
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#5 User is offline   Search & Destroy 

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 12:09 PM

The frightening thing is there are still many people who do not see Islam are threat to peace here in England.

Even moderate Islam is extreme to the west.
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#6 User is offline   Town_Fan 

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:12 PM

View PostSearch and Destroy, on 14 June 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

The frightening thing is there are still many people who do not see Islam are threat to peace here in England.

Even moderate Islam is extreme to the west.


Was reading about how the Law Society are telling it's members who help write muslim wills should actively discriminate against women and non muslims i.e. the wills should leave more money to the men etc.

There was a uproar about it and by uproar I meant no-one gave a monkeys.
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#7 User is offline   fishini 

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 05:55 PM

View PostSearch and Destroy, on 14 June 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

The frightening thing is there are still many people who do not see Islam are threat to peace here in England.

Even moderate Islam is extreme to the west.

I have little time for religion of any sort, but I am afraid that IMO Islam is an abomination of everything I believe in. It has no tolerance, no respect for anyone other than Muslims and even less for women. It demands recognition and equality while failing to recognize any other religion other than it's self. Without knowing the exact figures I would guess that at least 90% of terrorist attacks are n the name of Islam. Islam for whatever reason is allowed in this country is allowed to openly preach hatred on our streets, in our schools and many mosques. That said I am convinced that the majority of Muslims are little different to anyone else and along with the rest of the World abhor the terrorism and atrocities committed in the name of their religion. Just like the majority of Catholics do where the systematic abuse of children occurred within their priesthood and convents. It is not the people who worship Islam that I hate even though they are the ones responsible for keeping it in the dark ages,it is the people who abuse Islam and murder thousands in its name
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#8 User is offline   Wooden Spoon 

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:24 PM

View Postfishini, on 14 June 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:

I have little time for religion of any sort, but I am afraid that IMO Islam is an abomination of everything I believe in. It has no tolerance, no respect for anyone other than Muslims and even less for women. It demands recognition and equality while failing to recognize any other religion other than it's self. Without knowing the exact figures I would guess that at least 90% of terrorist attacks are n the name of Islam. Islam for whatever reason is allowed in this country is allowed to openly preach hatred on our streets, in our schools and many mosques. That said I am convinced that the majority of Muslims are little different to anyone else and along with the rest of the World abhor the terrorism and atrocities committed in the name of their religion. Just like the majority of Catholics do where the systematic abuse of children occurred within their priesthood and convents. It is not the people who worship Islam that I hate even though they are the ones responsible for keeping it in the dark ages,it is the people who abuse Islam and murder thousands in its name

Hard not to disagree with any of that.

The current events in the Middle East are a concern. Militant Islam is on the rise everywhere and I'd a concern. This could lead to something in the region akin to the 30 year war but with modern weapons

This post has been edited by a kick in the balls: 14 June 2014 - 07:25 PM

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#9 User is online   Mr Mercury 

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:39 PM

View Postfishini, on 14 June 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:

I have little time for religion of any sort, but I am afraid that IMO Islam is an abomination of everything I believe in. It has no tolerance, no respect for anyone other than Muslims and even less for women. It demands recognition and equality while failing to recognize any other religion other than it's self. Without knowing the exact figures I would guess that at least 90% of terrorist attacks are n the name of Islam. Islam for whatever reason is allowed in this country is allowed to openly preach hatred on our streets, in our schools and many mosques. That said I am convinced that the majority of Muslims are little different to anyone else and along with the rest of the World abhor the terrorism and atrocities committed in the name of their religion. Just like the majority of Catholics do where the systematic abuse of children occurred within their priesthood and convents. It is not the people who worship Islam that I hate even though they are the ones responsible for keeping it in the dark ages,it is the people who abuse Islam and murder thousands in its name

Good post, but sadly I feel that the percentage of Muslims who back the militant / extremist way of following their "beliefs" is far, far higher than Christians, Hindus , atheists etc, and that includes those resident here. It's certainly far higher than our powers that be will admit, and that their powers that be would want to admit to.
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#10 User is offline   Wooden Spoon 

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:42 PM

View Posta kick in the balls, on 14 June 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

Hard not to disagree with any of that.

The current events in the Middle East are a concern. Militant Islam is on the rise everywhere and I'd a concern. This could lead to something in the region akin to the 30 year war but with modern weapons



sorry - hard not to agree with that not disagree
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#11 User is offline   Middle East 

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 08:39 AM

View PostMr Mercury, on 13 June 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:

Well after hundreds of decent UK and USA soldiers died liberating the country from Saddam, then left the Iraqi army to look after the country, it descends into chaos, murder and bloodshed..
Who'd have thought it?
Well at least Afghanistan will be a solid, self governed state, when we all leave, won't it?


Said exactly the same to my mrs when i saw it on the news.

The real tragedy with both Iraq and Afghanistan is that eventually nothing will have changed and lots of young lads have lost their lives in vain!
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#12 User is offline   Phil V 72 

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 09:25 AM

View PostMiddle East, on 15 June 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

Said exactly the same to my mrs when i saw it on the news.

The real tragedy with both Iraq and Afghanistan is that eventually nothing will have changed and lots of young lads have lost their lives in vain!


Not to mention hundreds of thousands of civilians
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#13 User is online   frearsghost 

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 11:26 AM

View PostTown_Fan, on 14 June 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

Was reading about how the Law Society are telling it's members who help write muslim wills should actively discriminate against women and non muslims i.e. the wills should leave more money to the men etc.

There was a uproar about it and by uproar I meant no-one gave a monkeys.


Not really 'telling' people but information about Muslim wills and Sharia Law is being incorporated into courses for those wanting to practice in these areas. There have been demonstrations by lawyers outside the Law Courts in protest about the incursion of a parallel system of law working alongside 'one law for all.' Sharia Law is a growing phenomenon in our country and this 'system of arbitration' exist in all areas of high Muslim population. Our government has turned a blind eye to its growth and I recall the last 'Archbishop of Canterbury' called for them.

As usual 'people tend not to give a monkeys' because, like all things in multicultural Britain, including Europe creep, - change happens imperceptibly and doesn't have an immediate impact on the lives of people.
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#14 User is offline   fishini 

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 05:58 PM

View Postfrearsghost, on 15 June 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

Not really 'telling' people but information about Muslim wills and Sharia Law is being incorporated into courses for those wanting to practice in these areas. There have been demonstrations by lawyers outside the Law Courts in protest about the incursion of a parallel system of law working alongside 'one law for all.' Sharia Law is a growing phenomenon in our country and this 'system of arbitration' exist in all areas of high Muslim population. Our government has turned a blind eye to its growth and I recall the last 'Archbishop of Canterbury' called for them.

As usual 'people tend not to give a monkeys' because, like all things in multicultural Britain, including Europe creep, - change happens imperceptibly and doesn't have an immediate impact on the lives of people.

Sharia Law has no part in the Great Britain. We have a law system that doesn't discriminate against color and creed. Looking at the punishments for crimes under Sharia Law, would any any person want to live life under Sharia Laws? If people think Sharia Law is the way forward I suggest they return to their countries and enjoy the fruits of Sharia Law. It is not wanted here and the practice of Sharia Law within Great Britain should be made illegal punishable by exile
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#15 User is offline   Search & Destroy 

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 09:08 PM

Air strikes please America
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#16 User is offline   Goku 

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 10:05 AM

Agreed. Kill a lot of civvies in a war that cannot be won.
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#17 User is offline   Search & Destroy 

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 10:22 AM

View PostGoku, on 16 June 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Agreed. Kill a lot of civvies in a war that cannot be won.



Fight fire with a furnace,

Drones and satellite images, no ground forces.

Far less civilian casualties than just sitting back and watching genocide happen.
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#18 User is offline   fishini 

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 05:51 PM

View PostGoku, on 16 June 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Agreed. Kill a lot of civvies in a war that cannot be won.

Well the terrorists ain't bothered about killing civvies in a war they can't win and are presently slaughtering innocent people in in their own country in the name of Islam. They also strap bombs to their own women and children. I have little sympathy for the country as a whole. All the bloodshed is their own doing. Put a blockade around the country and leave em to it, let them kill themselves. The world would be a better place without them
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#19 User is offline   Wooden Spoon 

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 06:31 PM

View PostSearch and Destroy, on 15 June 2014 - 09:08 PM, said:

Air strikes please America



no thanks.

its time that the middle east and Islam tried to sort out some of its own problems, rather than looking to blame Irael and the west all the time (although we do have a chunck of the blame on our plates)

Western troops going again in is adding more fuel to the fire. However, troops from Egypt, Sudi Arabia, Morrocco, Tunisia etc etc under the UN banner and blue helmets would have a much much greater chance of achieving some stability and peace.
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#20 User is offline   Search & Destroy 

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 09:56 PM

Kenya experiences Islam today.
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