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2016 - The Year Civilisation Went Backwards. Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   The Earl of Chesterfield 

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 11:27 PM

It's not just the many contributors to the greater good we've lost.

It's not just the way the Brexit vote was interpreted by some as licence to replicate nineteen thirties Germany.

It's not just tens of millions of supposedly civilised people thinking Trump is the answer.

It's not just Putin.

It's not just religious madness.

It's not just a billionaire owned press convincing a worryingly self centred populace that the most draconian anti-union laws in the Western World are justified or taking from the vulnerable to fund the wealthy is somehow acceptable.

Hell, it's not just the sh*t Town fans have been subjected to by those who's only association to the Club is through their bank account or their various - and subsequently absent - apologists.

Twenty sixteen has been a fu**ing s*t year.
Spanish proverb: 'Pessimists are just well informed optimists'
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#2 User is offline   Search & Destroy 

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 07:05 AM

Who has used Brexit to replicate 1930s Germany?

Have I missed something?
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#3 User is offline   calvin plummers socks 

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 08:52 AM

The Olympics were good though
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#4 User is offline   Mr Mercury 

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 12:03 PM

View Postcalvin plummers socks, on 28 December 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

The Olympics were good though

They were indeed. Our asthmatics did a fantastic job!
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#5 User is offline   dim view 

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 11:30 AM

View PostMDCCCLXVI, on 26 December 2016 - 11:27 PM, said:

It's not just the many contributors to the greater good we've lost.

It's not just the way the Brexit vote was interpreted by some as licence to replicate nineteen thirties Germany.

It's not just tens of millions of supposedly civilised people thinking Trump is the answer.

It's not just Putin.

It's not just religious madness.

It's not just a billionaire owned press convincing a worryingly self centred populace that the most draconian anti-union laws in the Western World are justified or taking from the vulnerable to fund the wealthy is somehow acceptable.

Hell, it's not just the sh*t Town fans have been subjected to by those who's only association to the Club is through their bank account or their various - and subsequently absent - apologists.

Twenty sixteen has been a fu**ing s*t year.

But people want change, and 2016 has been a great year for seeing change initiated. It's proved to me that so called Democracies aren't because a new political law has emerged. 'Is a democracy a true democracy if it cannot embrace national referenda'. The answer is surely 'no', so we need a new definition. The UK political system has just about survived. I have severe doubts about the US political system which I believe could not ever contemplate any type of referendum. People in other European democracies are showing signs of frustration at their 'democracy', and all this is being achieved (just) without large scale violence which would have been the solution last century.

So, in my opinion it's been a great year politically as change for the better has been started.
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#6 User is offline   Paragon of Virtue 

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 12:40 PM

We also raised life expectancy to its highest level in history, sent a spacecraft up to Jupiter, eliminated AIDS related deaths by 45 percent and detected gravitational waves from an explosion that occurred over a billion years ago.
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#7 User is offline   mr. smith 

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 12:50 PM

View PostParagon of Virtue, on 30 December 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

We also raised life expectancy to its highest level in history, sent a spacecraft up to Jupiter, eliminated AIDS related deaths by 45 percent and detected gravitational waves from an explosion that occurred over a billion years ago.


we also cant feed, clothe & keep safe millions.
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#8 User is offline   frearsghost 

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 01:30 PM

[quote name='Search and Destroy' timestamp='1482908725' post='1264991']
Who has used Brexit to replicate 1930s Germany?

Have I missed something?
[/quote

In the 70's, I used to be a member of the Anti-Nazi League. I still have the badges. I was always on the look out for Nazis and assorted fascists. You know what? I found very few.

Across our country, I don't see any signs of another Adolf Hitler. I don't see brown shirts marching down our streets or Asian shop windows being smashed, and mass forced transportations of people. Britain doesn't do fascism. We've been a democracy since the middle of the seventeenth century and 2016 saw us safeguard that liberty and freedom by a whisker.

We Brits, by and large, are a reasonable, fair and compassionate people. A revolution has taken place. The ideology of our middle-class, liberal governing class has been thrown out. We voted for change and succeeded. This is being replicated in America and across Europe.

It's a victory for us all but especially the hard pressed working class, whose despair, unemployment, housing, falling wages, decrepit communities, sub standard schools and social services, and the discreditation of their (our) values, identity and culture has been arrogantly dismissed by the political class whose response has been, 'EU, EU and more EU'. The old order still fights. Those who campaigned for change, they say, are stupid, uneducated, racists, etc. If the old order triumphs, democracy loses and that will be a tragedy.

It's been a great year and one to look forward to with optimism. It won't be easy, it never is, and there will be many great challenges.

This post has been edited by frearsghost: 30 December 2016 - 02:08 PM

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#9 User is offline   The Earl of Chesterfield 

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 02:35 PM

View Postfrearsghost, on 30 December 2016 - 01:30 PM, said:

In the 70's, I used to be a member of the Anti-Nazi League. I still have the badges. I was always on the look out for Nazis and assorted fascists. You know what? I found very few.

Across our country, I don't see any signs of another Adolf Hitler. I don't see brown shirts marching down our streets or Asian shop windows being smashed, and mass forced transportations of people. Britain doesn't do fascism. We've been a democracy since the middle of the seventeenth century and 2016 saw us safeguard that liberty and freedom by a whisker.

We Brits, by and large, are a reasonable, fair and compassionate people. A revolution has taken place. The ideology of our middle-class, liberal governing class has been thrown out. We voted for change and succeeded. This is being replicated in America and across Europe.

It's a victory for us all but especially the hard pressed working class, whose despair, unemployment, housing, falling wages, decrepit communities, sub standard schools and social services, and the discreditation of their (our) values, identity and culture has been arrogantly dismissed by the political class whose response has been, 'EU, EU and more EU'. The old order still fights. Those who campaigned for change, they say, are stupid, uneducated, racists, etc. If the old order triumphs, democracy loses and that will be a tragedy.

It's been a great year and one to look forward to with optimism. It won't be easy, it never is, and there will be many great challenges.


A fair and intelligent post, my friend.

Okay, perhaps my reference to nineteen thirties Germany was unwarranted (and hey, top marks for your work in the ANL, by the way) yet I think we'd all accept a number of very ugly people felt licenced to abuse, and in some cases attack folk with legitimate reasons to be here by the Brexit vote.

Indeed 'You Tube' is replete with examples.

Meanwhile I'm sure you'd join myself and many others in condemning some, maybe more than some of the 'post truth' rhetoric peddled by Farage and Co.

I totally reject the idea Brexit and Trump's triumph were examples of some sort of proletariat victory over the middle class establishment, too. Farage, a product of the leafiest of middle class, middle England was a stockbroker before spending nearly twenty years in the European Parliament. Hardly anti-establishment. Similar back stories apply to Gove, Grayling, Johnson and many others, with all Boris's 'shall I, sha'n't I' posturing as calculated as it was cynical.

Then of course Trump was born a multi-millionaire before spending a lifetime as a key member of the very establishment he purported to oppose. Before back-peddling on a great deal of his election hyperbole, I now note.

As for Brits being reasonable, fair and compassionate, then why do they tolerate some of the most draconian anti union legislation witnessed since the nineteenth century? Laws that require working people to demonstrate support for industrial action that dwarfs the vote that allows this government to impose such measures? Why are striking teachers, nurses and doctors - some of the most dedicated and professional people in society - subject to calls to 'get back to work 'cos you earn more than us'? And the recent wave of strikes were met by some with indignation even The Daily Mail might baulk at.

All because people may've been mildly inconvenienced for a day or two - inconveniences that are part of their normal experience thanks to a shambolic Southern Rail service regardless of the tax payer millions that company enjoys. A fact Tory MP's and their friends in the media seem strangely silent about the rest of the year...

We may not be facing brown shirts parading down the streets, but I do sense a widespread, growing and highly concerning insularity.

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 30 December 2016 - 02:45 PM

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#10 User is offline   CFC91 

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 02:44 PM

View PostMDCCCLXVI, on 30 December 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

A fair and intelligent post, my friend.

Okay, perhaps my reference to nineteen thirties Germany was unwarranted (and hey, top marks for your work in the ANL, by the way) yet I think we'd all accept a number of very ugly people felt licenced to abuse, and in some cases attack folk with legitimate reasons to be here by the Brexit vote.


Indeed 'You Tube' is replete with examples.

Meanwhile I'm sure you'd join myself and many others in condemning some, maybe more than some of the 'post truth' rhetoric peddled by Farage and Co.

I totally reject the idea Brexit and Trump's triumph were examples of some sort of proletariat victory over the middle class establishment, too. Farage, a product of the leafiest of middle class, middle England was a stockbroker before spending nearly twenty years in the European Parliament. Hardly anti-establishment. Similar back stories apply to Gove, Grayling, Johnson and many others, with all Boris's 'shall I, sha'n't I' posturing as calculated as it was cynical.

Then of course Trump was born a multi-millionaire before spending a lifetime a key member of the very establishment he purported to oppose. Before back-peddling on many of the election promises he made, I note.

As for Brits being reasonable, fair and compassionate, then why do they tolerate some of the most draconian anti union legislation witnessed since the nineteenth century? Laws that require working people to demonstrate support for industrial action that dwarfs the vote that allows this government to impose such measures? Why are striking teachers, nurses and doctors - some of the most dedicated and professional people in society - subject to calls to 'get back to work 'cos you earn more than us'? And the recent wave of strikes were met by some with indignation even The Daily Mail might baulk at.

We may not be facing brown shirts parading down the streets, but I do sense a widespread, growing and highly concerning insularity.


You could say the attacks on the 18 million Brexit voters have also been uncalled for and totally out of order. The vote shaming culture in the media, social media and from various celebs has been nothing short of pathetic. The silent 52% shouldn't have to fear admitting how they voted for fear of abuse from what is minority who voted to stay in the EU.

Afterall, the country hasn't yet fallen to bits like the scaremongerers would have you believe anyway. FWIW we will probably look back in 20 years time and realise the vote the UK had has changed things for the better not only here, but also across Europe.
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#11 User is offline   mr. smith 

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 05:20 PM

View PostCFC91, on 30 December 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

You could say the attacks on the 18 million Brexit voters have also been uncalled for and totally out of order. The vote shaming culture in the media, social media and from various celebs has been nothing short of pathetic. The silent 52% shouldn't have to fear admitting how they voted for fear of abuse from what is minority who voted to stay in the EU.

Afterall, the country hasn't yet fallen to bits like the scaremongerers would have you believe anyway. FWIW we will probably look back in 20 years time and realise the vote the UK had has changed things for the better not only here, but also across Europe.


the attacks faced by people of different skin colour/nationality or religion are far worse than a bit of name calling from both sides of the brexit vote.

the country hasn't fallen to bits yet but equally we haven't got the terms of our withdrawal sorted yet.
hopefully in a lot less than 20yrs we look back on it all with gratitude to the leave voters, but that's hopefully not probably.
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#12 User is offline   fishini 

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 08:07 PM

View PostCFC91, on 30 December 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

You could say the attacks on the 18 million Brexit voters have also been uncalled for and totally out of order. The vote shaming culture in the media, social media and from various celebs has been nothing short of pathetic. The silent 52% shouldn't have to fear admitting how they voted for fear of abuse from what is minority who voted to stay in the EU.

Afterall, the country hasn't yet fallen to bits like the scaremongerers would have you believe anyway. FWIW we will probably look back in 20 years time and realise the vote the UK had has changed things for the better not only here, but also across Europe.

Not yet. Give it time. See what happens when/if we leave
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#13 User is offline   Goku 

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 08:47 PM

Is it me or has racism become a lot more normalised since Brexit? I saw this on Twitter - obviously it's the Daily Mail so you've got to expect your fair share of pond life and bigotry but look at the upvotes and downvotes on all the comments;

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#14 User is offline   Wooden Spoon 

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 09:07 PM

Italian banks now requesting a bailout from the government. The EU 4th biggest economy, and when we go the third. Needing a bailout years after the credit crunch and while the UK and the USA have half decent growth they have this crisis.


It's a house of cards built on sand. Have they sorted the Greece issue yet? It's been rumbling along for years. And it still is.


We are best away from it. It's not sustainable, it's a political and economic mishmash driven by Eurocrats ego and nothing else. Politics for the sake of politics, costing billions and billions, stifling democracy and basic freedoms at the expense of "the project" The sooner we are away, and forging links with India, Brazil, China US Canada etc as an independent nation the better.


HB. People calling Asians P4KIS has happened and will happen, brexit isn't the reason, racist bell ends are. They don't need brexit to exist, they just do.
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#15 User is offline   frearsghost 

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 01:17 PM

View PostMDCCCLXVI, on 30 December 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

A fair and intelligent post, my friend.

Okay, perhaps my reference to nineteen thirties Germany was unwarranted (and hey, top marks for your work in the ANL, by the way) yet I think we'd all accept a number of very ugly people felt licenced to abuse, and in some cases attack folk with legitimate reasons to be here by the Brexit vote.

Indeed 'You Tube' is replete with examples.

Meanwhile I'm sure you'd join myself and many others in condemning some, maybe more than some of the 'post truth' rhetoric peddled by Farage and Co.

I totally reject the idea Brexit and Trump's triumph were examples of some sort of proletariat victory over the middle class establishment, too. Farage, a product of the leafiest of middle class, middle England was a stockbroker before spending nearly twenty years in the European Parliament. Hardly anti-establishment. Similar back stories apply to Gove, Grayling, Johnson and many others, with all Boris's 'shall I, sha'n't I' posturing as calculated as it was cynical.

Then of course Trump was born a multi-millionaire before spending a lifetime as a key member of the very establishment he purported to oppose. Before back-peddling on a great deal of his election hyperbole, I now note.

As for Brits being reasonable, fair and compassionate, then why do they tolerate some of the most draconian anti union legislation witnessed since the nineteenth century? Laws that require working people to demonstrate support for industrial action that dwarfs the vote that allows this government to impose such measures? Why are striking teachers, nurses and doctors - some of the most dedicated and professional people in society - subject to calls to 'get back to work 'cos you earn more than us'? And the recent wave of strikes were met by some with indignation even The Daily Mail might baulk at.

All because people may've been mildly inconvenienced for a day or two - inconveniences that are part of their normal experience thanks to a shambolic Southern Rail service regardless of the tax payer millions that company enjoys. A fact Tory MP's and their friends in the media seem strangely silent about the rest of the year...

We may not be facing brown shirts parading down the streets, but I do sense a widespread, growing and highly concerning insularity.


Some good points but the class war rhetoric closes too many doors for me.

I have no envy of the rich and privileged. I don't see them as the enemy. The real enemy can be ideologies from all social classes and political parties. I don't discriminate.

Many working class voters didn't overthrow the establishment. My point was, they overthrew their ideas.

I won't be joining in the establishment attack on Farage. He achieved the impossible. He, almost single handily, took on the entire European establishment and won. Where else could he do that but from Brussels? He said he did so, not for aggrandisement but to get his country back. It would be churlish not to recognise his achievement.

He was metal trader not a stockbroker. There's nothing pejorative about these occupations and I don't agree with
your implicit comment, that being wealthy and privileged disqualifies one from being moral, philanthropic or patriotic. Wealth is sometimes necessary for these things but not sufficient. Some of the most ruthless dictators were born in poverty.

On LBC this morning, an RMT spokesman quoted his rule book stating their priority is to overthrow the government and install a socialist one. Not helpful. I support the freedom of the right to withdraw one's labour
but should like to see legislation that guarantees that, albeit with 'responsibility' clauses.


Happy new year Chris.
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#16 User is offline   Misnomer 

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 02:38 PM

View Postfrearsghost, on 31 December 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

Some good points but the class war rhetoric closes too many doors for me.

I have no envy of the rich and privileged. I don't see them as the enemy. The real enemy can be ideologies from all social classes and political parties. I don't discriminate.

Many working class voters didn't overthrow the establishment. My point was, they overthrew their ideas.

I won't be joining in the establishment attack on Farage. He achieved the impossible. He, almost single handily, took on the entire European establishment and won. Where else could he do that but from Brussels? He said he did so, not for aggrandisement but to get his country back. It would be churlish not to recognise his achievement.

He was metal trader not a stockbroker. There's nothing pejorative about these occupations and I don't agree with
your implicit comment, that being wealthy and privileged disqualifies one from being moral, philanthropic or patriotic. Wealth is sometimes necessary for these things but not sufficient. Some of the most ruthless dictators were born in poverty.

On LBC this morning, an RMT spokesman quoted his rule book stating their priority is to overthrow the government and install a socialist one. Not helpful. I support the freedom of the right to withdraw one's labour
but should like to see legislation that guarantees that, albeit with 'responsibility' clauses.


Happy new year Chris.


I tell you what I recognise, Farrage's ability to engender and whip up racial tension/hatred on the grounds of dumb, unfounded and controversial statements/propaganda; for example: an inconceivable amount of rapes committed by immigrants that will occur from the Syrian refugee crisis; that ridiculous poster of a long line of Syrian immigrants heading to the UK, which was emblazoned upon the side of a huge trailer and driven around the UK; British jobs for British people...; the list goes on and on. Then there's the convicted racists that joined his party, some subsequently ejected from the party for voicing their racist agenda. He may have narrowly won the EU referendum but his methods were/are highly questionable, as is his relationship with Trump.

Ref your comments on the claim that people who voted leave aren't racist. I'll ask you this question: how do you know they aren't?
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#17 User is offline   kh83 

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 03:34 PM

View PostCFC91, on 30 December 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

You could say the attacks on the 18 million Brexit voters have also been uncalled for and totally out of order. The vote shaming culture in the media, social media and from various celebs has been nothing short of pathetic. The silent 52% shouldn't have to fear admitting how they voted for fear of abuse from what is minority who voted to stay in the EU.

Afterall, the country hasn't yet fallen to bits like the scaremongerers would have you believe anyway. FWIW we will probably look back in 20 years time and realise the vote the UK had has changed things for the better not only here, but also across Europe.


Couldn't agree more and for what it's worth, he is right some knuckle dragging Neanderthal scum bags have surfaced and behaved appallingly since the vote but that's not Brexit's fault. These idiots have always been there and because they don't understand Brexit at all, they use it as an excuse to spread their hatred. It's not good and although not covered by mainstream media much, Brexit voters, particularly older people have been victim to some terrible abuse too.

All in all it's been a fantastic year and 23rd of June will go down in history as the day the British people saved Britain and Britain lead the way in saving Europe and maybe even the western world if you think Brexit influenced the Trump vote? Remainers don't appreciate it yet, it will take many years no doubt but 23rd June 2016 will go down historically as our Independence day and future generations will be proud of our generation for standing up to and defeating a corrupt dictatorship hell bent on eradicating national identity to build a united states of Europe.
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#18 User is offline   kh83 

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 03:43 PM

View PostMisnomer, on 31 December 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

I tell you what I recognise, Farrage's ability to engender and whip up racial tension/hatred on the grounds of dumb, unfounded and controversial statements/propaganda; for example: an inconceivable amount of rapes committed by immigrants that will occur from the Syrian refugee crisis; that ridiculous poster of a long line of Syrian immigrants heading to the UK, which was emblazoned upon the side of a huge trailer and driven around the UK; British jobs for British people...; the list goes on and on. Then there's the convicted racists that joined his party, some subsequently ejected from the party for voicing their racist agenda. He may have narrowly won the EU referendum but his methods were/are highly questionable, as is his relationship with Trump.

Ref your comments on the claim that people who voted leave aren't racist. I'll ask you this question: how do you know they aren't?


My word. It's people like you that give remianers a bad name.
I accept that they where upset after the vote as leavers would have been if it had gone the other way and it's understandable that some hit out in frustration and said and did some things they now probably regret. But you know what most remainers have got over it and engage in healthy debate and contribute to reasoned conversation with dignity and respect. But then there's the odd numpty like yourself that pops up with comments like this.
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#19 User is offline   Search & Destroy 

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 03:49 PM

View PostMisnomer, on 31 December 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

I tell you what I recognise, Farrage's ability to engender and whip up racial tension/hatred on the grounds of dumb, unfounded and controversial statements/propaganda; for example: an inconceivable amount of rapes committed by immigrants that will occur from the Syrian refugee crisis; that ridiculous poster of a long line of Syrian immigrants heading to the UK, which was emblazoned upon the side of a huge trailer and driven around the UK; British jobs for British people...; the list goes on and on. Then there's the convicted racists that joined his party, some subsequently ejected from the party for voicing their racist agenda. He may have narrowly won the EU referendum but his methods were/are highly questionable, as is his relationship with Trump.

Ref your comments on the claim that people who voted leave aren't racist. I'll ask you this question: how do you know they aren't?




Left wing remoaner screaming racist

What a shocker
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#20 User is offline   kh83 

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 05:26 PM

View PostSearch and Destroy, on 05 January 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

Left wing remoaner screaming racist

What a shocker


When the extreme left falsely shout Racist, the race they're suggesting that has been discriminated against is the non white race and the perpetrators Brexit voters. Interestingly enough one third of all black and ethnic minorities voted for Brexit
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