[Guest_freelander2_*]

The Gimp, on 25 October 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Your a bright chap, so can you fathom what they actually want Turner to achieve, and what they want CFC to achieve? What are the objectives? It makes no sense to me at all to run a business at a loss.

When Allen originally came here, he had no issues in outlining his exit strategy to the other directors and the media, to get the club in the Championship and sell up. Given that is now extremely unlikely, I just wonder whether we're witnessing an all together different exit to the one that he had originally planned.

I suspect the repayment of the council loan, the switch involving the first charge on the ground, Allen transferring some of his shares to his daughter & AC, 10 months of disastrous PR which has been tolerated, Allen's reluctance to address clear weaknesses in the club's structure and his F'em attitude to anyone who dare question the running of the club will no doubt all unravel in the coming months.

[The Black Triangle]

freelander2, on 25 October 2016 - 07:57 PM, said:

When Allen originally came here, he had no issues in outlining his exit strategy to the other directors and the media, to get the club in the Championship and sell up. Given that is now extremely unlikely, I just wonder whether we're witnessing an all together different exit to the one that he had originally planned.

I suspect the repayment of the council loan, the switch involving the first charge on the ground, Allen transferring some of his shares to his daughter & AC, 10 months of disastrous PR which has been tolerated, Allen's reluctance to address clear weaknesses in the club's structure and his F'em attitude to anyone who dare question the running of the club will no doubt all unravel in the coming months.

He takes the ground and relinquishes ownership of the football club? Is that what you think?

[60s 70s Spireite]

freelander2, on 25 October 2016 - 07:57 PM, said:

When Allen originally came here, he had no issues in outlining his exit strategy to the other directors and the media, to get the club in the Championship and sell up. Given that is now extremely unlikely, I just wonder whether we're witnessing an all together different exit to the one that he had originally planned.

I suspect the repayment of the council loan, the switch involving the first charge on the ground, Allen transferring some of his shares to his daughter & AC, 10 months of disastrous PR which has been tolerated, Allen's reluctance to address clear weaknesses in the club's structure and his F'em attitude to anyone who dare question the running of the club will no doubt all unravel in the coming months.

You have to think that one day DA will have to accept an offer which means he crystallises some losses, but he does make an exit. No way can I see him recouping his investment.

Fact is no one, in the history of this club, has put so much money into it. And no one will potentially have lost so much.

[The Black Triangle]

60s 70s Spireite, on 25 October 2016 - 08:20 PM, said:

Fact is no one, in the history of this club, has put so much money into it. And no one will potentially have lost so much.

That's why I don't understand why he appears to be endorsing what's going on

[60s 70s Spireite]

The Gimp, on 25 October 2016 - 08:24 PM, said:

That's why I don't understand why he appears to be endorsing what's going on

Not seen a plausible explanation yet.
Hope over experience?

[Guest_freelander2_*]

The Gimp, on 25 October 2016 - 08:18 PM, said:

He takes the ground and relinquishes ownership of the football club? Is that what you think?

I don't know what to think. Very little makes any sense.

[Heart of a Niven]

The Gimp, on 25 October 2016 - 08:24 PM, said:

That's why I don't understand why he appears to be endorsing what's going on

Sadly, I think that the gruff, stubborn Yorkshireman (apologies for the sterotype) will happily see the business fail, rather than admit he's made a mistake - the same mistakes he made at Wednesday.
He's made his money from gambling enterprises where the first rule of gambling is 'the house always wins'. Out in the real world, businesses don't work like that and this is where Allen has come unstuck - he's applied the same principles from his gaming enterprises into his football ones.

[moondog]

The Gimp, on 25 October 2016 - 08:24 PM, said:

That's why I don't understand why he appears to be endorsing what's going on

I think we need a far fuller breakdown of exactly where the money has gone to understand that

[Mr Mercury]

Heart of a Niven, on 25 October 2016 - 08:37 PM, said:

Sadly, I think that the gruff, stubborn Yorkshireman (apologies for the sterotype) will happily see the business fail, rather than admit he's made a mistake - the same mistakes he made at Wednesday.
He's made his money from gambling enterprises where the first rule of gambling is 'the house always wins'. Out in the real world, businesses don't work like that and this is where Allen has come unstuck - he's applied the same principles from his gaming enterprises into his football ones.

TBH he's making a fair fist of being, somewhat unusually, hated by Wednesdayites and Spireites together, that must be a new one?

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

Heart of a Niven, on 25 October 2016 - 08:37 PM, said:

Sadly, I think that the gruff, stubborn Yorkshireman (apologies for the sterotype) will happily see the business fail, rather than admit he's made a mistake - the same mistakes he made at Wednesday.
He's made his money from gambling enterprises where the first rule of gambling is 'the house always wins'. Out in the real world, businesses don't work like that and this is where Allen has come unstuck - he's applied the same principles from his gaming enterprises into his football ones.

No he hasn't, they are profitable

[Spireite-Karl]

moondog, on 25 October 2016 - 08:38 PM, said:

I think we need a far fuller breakdown of exactly where the money has gone to understand that

And then we'll find out exactly what's going on, though that's not going to happen until he's done what he wants to do and has left the building.

[azul]

freelander2, on 25 October 2016 - 08:36 PM, said:

I don't know what to think. Very little makes any sense.

Split the CFC into a stadium company and football club. He keeps the stadium company, his "associates" who he has gifted the shares to takes ownership of the football side. Split the debt between the two companies. The football side becomes insolvent and goes into admin wiping out the non DA debt and he buys it back for a pound or redevelops the stadium site. Never had much faith in this change of use clause that is supposed to protect the site

[Forever a Spireite]

azul, on 25 October 2016 - 12:44 PM, said:

Too much detail, but here is a flavour

In 7.529M

Gate 1.638M, TV and awards 1.186M, Transfers 2.009M, Commercial 2.082M, Other 0.612M

Out:
Admin 6.432 (including all wages of 4.178M and Pension an NI of 0.464M)
Cost of Sales 0.514M
Rates etc. 0.365M
Interest Payable 0.244M

So the admin and wages are deals negotiated by Turnipe! How is he still in a job Mr Allen????

[BlueDay]

Mr Mercury, on 25 October 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

TBH he's making a fair fist of being, somewhat unusually, hated by Wednesdayites and Spireites together, that must be a new one?

As I've always said, fall out at Wednesday and the football world will forgive you they are hardly the most understanding of fans. Fall out with Chesterfield fans and it is probably you and by default it then also exonerates the Wednesday fans in his fall out there.

[60s 70s Spireite]

azul, on 25 October 2016 - 08:52 PM, said:

Split the CFC into a stadium company and football club. He keeps the stadium company, his "associates" who he has gifted the shares to takes ownership of the football side. Split the debt between the two companies. The football side becomes insolvent and goes into admin wiping out the non DA debt and he buys it back for a pound or redevelops the stadium site. Never had much faith in this change of use clause that is supposed to protect the site

Can see where you are coming from, but note you can't incorporate a company with more debt than assets. It would be illegal.

[azul]

60s 70s Spireite, on 25 October 2016 - 08:58 PM, said:

Can see where you are coming from, but note you can't incorporate a company with more debt than assets. It would be illegal.

How do yo work out assets? Would playing staff count as assets, no sarcasm please

[60s 70s Spireite]

azul, on 25 October 2016 - 09:03 PM, said:

How do yo work out assets? Would playing staff count as assets, no sarcasm please

Players can be valued at cost of incoming transfer fees, less amortisation over the length of their contract.
They can't be valued at 'market value'.

Could the football club be said to have some goodwill value? Not a lot me thinks.

[dim view]

60s 70s Spireite, on 25 October 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

No, would be disclosed as a related party transaction.

Do you know the rules for this?

Ashley sent me a post saying there was no need for his share acquisition, probably a gift, to be disclosed in the accounts. I saw it as a payment in kind which at the end of the day, is a payment.

[Sammy Spireite]

freelander2, on 25 October 2016 - 05:44 PM, said:

3) Rent increased from £0 (06/12) to £29,139 (06/16). I wonder what this relates to?

What could we possibly be renting? (Assuming it's strictly building rent??)

Training facilities?

Would costs associated with players staying over locally at the club's request, be detailed as rent? (Do we still have the house at Tapton?)

Surely it's not the rent for the circus tent over the road???

[Guest_freelander2_*]

Sammy Spireite, on 26 October 2016 - 12:11 AM, said:

What could we possibly be renting? (Assuming it's strictly building rent??)

Training facilities?

Would costs associated with players staying over locally at the club's request, be detailed as rent? (Do we still have the house at Tapton?)

Surely it's not the rent for the circus tent over the road???

It could be the training ground, the manager's accommodation, players' accommodation, etc. However, whatever it is, it wasn't being charged to the rent nominal code in the accounts for y/e 30/06/12 & 30/06/13.

Edit - having said it could be the training ground, there is a separate cost for 'training facilities' at £29,172.

This post has been edited by freelander2: 26 October 2016 - 06:05 AM