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#1 User is offline   fishini 

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 06:55 PM

Just thinking after a talk with someone today. Is it possible to believe in something that can't be proved to exist? I believe in the afterlife so to speak IE ghosts. I cannot prove that they exist but I know they do. My friend said to me you cannot believe in anything that you cant touch, feel or prove I disagree. Your thoughts

This post has been edited by fishini: 14 February 2010 - 06:56 PM

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#2 User is offline   Guest_freelander2_* 

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 07:23 PM

View Postfishini, on Feb 14 2010, 06:58 PM, said:

Just thinking after a talk with someone today. Is it possible to believe in something that can't be proved to exist? I believe in the afterlife so to speak IE ghosts. I cannot prove that they exist but I know they do. My friend said to me you cannot believe in anything that you cant touch, feel or prove I disagree. Your thoughts


I think it's human nature to believe that there is an afterlife, however, I'm yet to witness anything to support this.

How do you know that ghosts exist?
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#3 User is offline   fishini 

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 07:47 PM

View Postfreelander2, on Feb 14 2010, 07:26 PM, said:

I think it's human nature to believe that there is an afterlife, however, I'm yet to witness anything to support this.

How do you know that ghosts exist?

I have witnessed them, so in myself I know they exist but I would have no way of proving that it. Ghost is a word that we use but it's not the correct name really, ghosts are IMO just a memory stored in a location similar to a cassette tape just a recording of the past. What I term as ghosts are really spirits these are IMO not trapped souls or anything like that but they are souls that have moved on and choose to exist along side us. I am waffleing as per usual but I really do believe in the afterlife but I am not religious. Does God exist? To most people in the world it does but there is absolutely no evidence that God exists
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#4 User is offline   The Earl of Chesterfield 

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 10:51 PM

Blimey Fishi, this is all getting a bit deep for a football forum.

Here's me, though: i have never, ever witnessed anything that leads me to think there's more to this universe than what we experience on a daily basis.

Ghosts, U.F.O.'s, The Loch Ness Monster?

Nah, do me a favour.

However i'm open to the suggestion that there may be more to this universe than we can understand, so i choose to believe that maybe, just perhaps, all those stories of a near-death white light and the like might have some validity.

The altenative is simply too depressing to contemplate.

Without being glib i guess there are parallels with football, too. After all, every football fan nurtures the dream that one day, one day their club will fulfill their dreams even though there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever to substantiate such a belief.

It's what keeps us going through all the sh*t.

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 14 February 2010 - 10:54 PM

Spanish proverb: 'Pessimists are just well informed optimists'
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Posted 14 February 2010 - 11:03 PM

View Postfishini, on Feb 14 2010, 07:50 PM, said:

I have witnessed them, so in myself I know they exist but I would have no way of proving that it. Ghost is a word that we use but it's not the correct name really, ghosts are IMO just a memory stored in a location similar to a cassette tape just a recording of the past. What I term as ghosts are really spirits these are IMO not trapped souls or anything like that but they are souls that have moved on and choose to exist along side us. I am waffleing as per usual but I really do believe in the afterlife but I am not religious. Does God exist? To most people in the world it does but there is absolutely no evidence that God exists


Well over the years i have lost no end of my family and not one has come back to me to say they are fine,maybe that is because they are dead :blink: so no i don't believe in the afterlife,but one strange thing happened when my mother was dying in Ashgate Hospice,she kept reaching her arms out at the ceiling on the day she died and i joked and said is my dad here,since my mum died both my aunties said my mum came to them,i said in no uncertain terms bull shiit she would come to me and my sister first and she hasn't.....
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#6 User is offline   Ernie Ernie Ernie 

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 11:10 PM

View PostDema Reborn, on Feb 14 2010, 11:06 PM, said:

Well over the years i have lost no end of my family and not one has come back to me to say they are fine,maybe that is because they are dead :blink: so no i don't believe in the afterlife,but one strange thing happened when my mother was dying in Ashgate Hospice,she kept reaching her arms out at the ceiling on the day she died and i joked and said is my dad here,since my mum died both my aunties said my mum came to them,i said in no uncertain terms bull shiit she would come to me and my sister first and she hasn't.....


Your mum makes decision to go see you aunties and......... it's really not like you to moan about decisions Keith ;)
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#7 Guest_Dema Reborn_*

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 11:30 AM

View PostErnie Ernie Ernie, on Feb 14 2010, 11:13 PM, said:

Your mum makes decision to go see you aunties and......... it's really not like you to moan about decisions Keith :rolleyes:


Spot on i should have been born a woman :rolleyes:
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#8 User is offline   Heavy_Soul 

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 01:39 PM

View Postfishini, on Feb 14 2010, 07:50 PM, said:

I have witnessed them, so in myself I know they exist but I would have no way of proving that it. Ghost is a word that we use but it's not the correct name really, ghosts are IMO just a memory stored in a location similar to a cassette tape just a recording of the past. What I term as ghosts are really spirits these are IMO not trapped souls or anything like that but they are souls that have moved on and choose to exist along side us. I am waffleing as per usual but I really do believe in the afterlife but I am not religious. Does God exist? To most people in the world it does but there is absolutely no evidence that God exists



i definitlly belive in ghosts as i, myself have also seen them, not religious in any sort of way but i do feel there is something else after this, ill just have to wait and find out
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#9 User is offline   Town_Fan 

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 02:31 PM

View PostHeavy_Soul, on Feb 15 2010, 01:42 PM, said:

i definitlly belive in ghosts as i, myself have also seen them, not religious in any sort of way but i do feel there is something else after this, ill just have to wait and find out


Have you really? Or is it more likely that you imagined or mistook some other phenomenon for seeing a ghost.
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#10 User is offline   Heavy_Soul 

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 03:31 PM

View PostTown_Fan, on Feb 15 2010, 02:34 PM, said:

Have you really? Or is it more likely that you imagined or mistook some other phenomenon for seeing a ghost.



i know what i saw, it was the strangest thing i had ever seen, i definitly believe to be a ghost and i hadnt been smoking crack - i would love a more simple explanation to me cos it scared the living daylights out of me
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#11 User is offline   fishini 

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 04:58 PM

View PostTown_Fan, on Feb 15 2010, 02:34 PM, said:

Have you really? Or is it more likely that you imagined or mistook some other phenomenon for seeing a ghost.

People believe in God but there is no proof, does this make them wrong? Life would be so depressing if this is all there is. I beleive there is more, doesn't make me wrong or right, but I do beleive and in my heart I know there is
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#12 User is offline   Town_Fan 

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:54 PM

View Postfishini, on Feb 15 2010, 05:01 PM, said:

Life would be so depressing if this is all there is.


Add to that people cant cope with death and you have the reason for fairy stories.
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#13 User is offline   fishini 

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 07:39 PM

View PostTown_Fan, on Feb 15 2010, 06:57 PM, said:

Add to that people cant cope with death and you have the reason for fairy stories.

Thats ok if thats what you believe, doesnt make you right or wrong others have different thoughts doesnt make them right or wrong. I can't prove that there is something else just like you can't prove that there isn't. Faith is a very powerful state. Why do you use the word fairy? There are no such things are there?
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#14 User is offline   Town_Fan 

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 10:46 PM

I cant prove that there isnt a teapot orbiting Venus or that there isnt a flying spaghetti monster who created us all with his noodly appendage, all I can do is look at the evidence around me and try to form an opinion based on that.
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#15 User is offline   Frank Thacker 

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 10:59 PM

View Postfishini, on Feb 15 2010, 05:01 PM, said:

Life would be so depressing if this is all there is.

On the other hand, embracing the belief that once you're gone, you're gone, can be quite life-affirming, and encourage you to get absolutely the most that you can out of your time on the planet.

I favour the idea that this is it. Yet on the night my mother died I was dropping off to sleep at the exact time, thirty miles away. I was woken abruptly by the smiling face of my dear old mum, coming from over my right shoulder and disappearing at a fair old whack into the distance. Odd!
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#16 User is offline   dalekpete 

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 12:26 AM

I know the point at which I realised "god" was a fallacy. I was watching “I Claudius” as a thirteen-year old and became confused by the eponymous emperor’s polytheism. My mother, who is now a worship leader in the Methodist Church, explained it in terms of the historical context and alternative religions. Unfortunately for my continued religious observance the genie was out of the bottle.

In looking for proof I an now compelled by the logic that makes an all-powerful deity impossible. If there is an afterlife and I meet this omnipotent being I will explain how he has got it wrong.

To quote that gay anthem, “I am what I am”, “it's one life and there's no return and no deposit.”

I hope any Christian fundamentalists appreciate that.
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#17 User is offline   Guest_freelander2_* 

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 08:35 AM

View PostStuart Basson, on Feb 15 2010, 11:02 PM, said:

I was woken abruptly by the smiling face of my dear old mum, coming from over my right shoulder and disappearing at a fair old whack into the distance. Odd!


Never?
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#18 User is offline   Denny 

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 11:32 AM

Fish, none of the following is me having a go, you are welcome to your opinion.

Although, i drop into the non-believer category, there have certainly been odd things happen when people passed away, like stu's experience when my grandmother passed on, my dad, auntie, great aunts and uncles in all parts of the country all woke up at the same time just as it happened. definately no eplanation for that, yet.

There have been a few studies relating to infrasound causing weird feelings and ghost sightings. You can have a check here: Infrasound wiki

Quote

The Ghost in the Machine

Research by Vic Tandy, a lecturer at Coventry University, suggested that the frequency 19 Hz was responsible for many ghost sightings. He was working late one night alone in a supposedly haunted laboratory at Warwick, when he felt very anxious and could detect a grey blob out of the corner of his eye. When he turned to face it, there was nothing.

The following day, he was working on his fencing foil, with the handle held in a vice. Although there was nothing touching it, the blade started to vibrate wildly. Further investigation led him to discover that the extraction fan was emitting a frequency of 18.98 Hz, very close to the resonant frequency of the eye (given as 18 Hz in NASA Technical Report 19770013810). This was why he saw a ghostly figure — it was an optical illusion caused by his eyeballs resonating. The room was exactly half a wavelength in length, and the desk was in the centre, thus causing a standing wave which was detected by the foil.[22]

Tandy investigated this phenomenon further and wrote a paper entitled The Ghost in the Machine[23]. He carried out a number of investigations at various sites believed to be haunted, including the basement of the Tourist Information Bureau next to Coventry Cathedral[24] [25] and Edinburgh Castle.[26][27]

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#19 User is offline   CFC Jill 

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 06:37 PM

Rather than belief - like your friend saying how can you believe in something you cannot prove - maybe a more appropriate word is faith.

People have faith that God exists ergo they believe in Him.

I'm not really sure about things one way or the other - I am in the open minded camp. After all, I've never seen some of the creatures that exist at the bottom of the sea, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Some things do make me wonder - one day my mum told me that she had got into bed, turned the light off, turned over and my dad put his arm around her. He'd died 18 years previously. One week later mum died - totally unexpected, a fit & healthy woman she had a pulmonary embolism.

Dad coming to comfort her and let her know he was waiting for her? Don't know - maybe - I can't dismiss it entirely tho.

Having said that, if my hubby comes n puts his arms around me after he's died I would probably join him extremely quickly cos the shock would do it for me!!!!
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#20 User is offline   clarevoyant. 

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 07:04 PM

I often wonder, that with a large proportion of the worlds populace believing that there will be a an uncountable amount virgins waiting for you on the otherside if you carry out certain deeds, will ever be disproved
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