[DIFH]

If things fall into place over Evans I would think the club are looking at millions in any transfer fees. Say for arguament 2 million arrives what happens then.

Reduce DA debt holding of previous debts which ever the better debt to reduce or something else comes to the fore.

[Heart of a Niven]

Dave In Footie Heaven, on 23 July 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

If things fall into place over Evans I would think the club are looking at millions in any transfer fees. Say for arguament 2 million arrives what happens then.

Reduce DA debt holding of previous debts which ever the better debt to reduce or something else comes to the fore.

Assuming the club sees anything of such fees.

[ELTON 2020]

MDCCCLXVI, on 23 July 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:

I think fans have every right to be extremely concerned over this.

I'd guess there were certain criteria associated with the Council contracts preventing DA from pursuing avenues he's now free to explore.

Possible scenario?

DA separates CFC from the bricks and mortar, perhaps placing CT in charge of the football club whilst the recently recruited ex Owlerton bloke takes over the stadium facilities.

This would mean a debt free and far more attractive to a buyer football club, however it'd have to pay an unknown amount for use of the Proact, we'd possibly be saddled with someone whose running of CFC and PPP has resulted in a catalogue of criticism - and would DA really give a toss whom he sold the Club to?

Be afraid...be very afraid.

In terms of journalism - I appreciate your views - but it's conjecture and purely "if". Dave Allen needs to come out and "clarifiy" What's happening in the context of the football club/business plan over the next 5 years.

[Heart of a Niven]

Radders, on 23 July 2016 - 11:58 AM, said:

I haven't read all this thread so I'm assuming most of what I'm about to say has been copvered, but I haven't posted for awhile so here goes!
As I understand it (from CBC) the club approached them a couple of months ago and the debt has been paid off for a few weeks now. The council were charging (I think) nearly 4% on that. My assumption is that we now owe Dave Allen who I thought was charging around 6% on his loans - so we haven't paid any debt off - we've just increased it.
Worryingly, from my point of view, The council's security on their loan was the ground, they had a vested interest in seeing football being played. That security has now gone and it would seem DA has total control.
What happened to that CFSS statement that boldly predicted that no single man would ever have complete ownership of the club again?

The CFSS were far too rash in signing over shares to DA. I argued with Mr Croot at the time, pointing out that such an act would leave the club open to the abuses of the past. Being told that DA would walk away if he wasn't given full control was little more than caving in to bully boy tactics. There were other options on the table for funding the new stadium build.

[ELTON 2020]

Radders, on 23 July 2016 - 11:58 AM, said:

I haven't read all this thread so I'm assuming most of what I'm about to say has been copvered, but I haven't posted for awhile so here goes!
As I understand it (from CBC) the club approached them a couple of months ago and the debt has been paid off for a few weeks now. The council were charging (I think) nearly 4% on that. My assumption is that we now owe Dave Allen who I thought was charging around 6% on his loans - so we haven't paid any debt off - we've just increased it.
Worryingly, from my point of view, The council's security on their loan was the ground, they had a vested interest in seeing football being played. That security has now gone and it would seem DA has total control.
What happened to that CFSS statement that boldly predicted that no single man would ever have complete ownership of the club again?

Appreciate your concerns but its only an assumption - like mine and many others'. Powers that be/fans need to call a fans meeting and put down on the record what is happening and why.

[Guest_freelander2_*]

MDCCCLXVI, on 23 July 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

I believe some of Allen's later loans attract a much lower rate, so it's unclear what's being charged for replacing the Council one.

Though I also believe the CBC loans that covered the payments allowing us to exit administration were structured over a given timescale - so why the sudden haste to address them?

My suspicion is you're spot on to focus on the security issue; payments aren't met and CBC had a part claim to the Proact footprint - however doesn't DA now get everything if he decides to liquidate the business?

As per the latest A&S accounts, the interest rate associated with their debenture is 5%.

AC confirms in the club's press release that the new funding will also attract an interest rate of 5%.

[sophocles]

Dave In Footie Heaven, on 23 July 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

If things fall into place over Evans I would think the club are looking at millions in any transfer fees. Say for arguament 2 million arrives what happens then.

Reduce DA debt holding of previous debts which ever the better debt to reduce or something else comes to the fore.

How on earth anyone can believe there would be any debt reduction whatsoever on the evidence of previous player sales is beyond me. I think there's far more chance of Santa AND the tooth fairy accompanied by the Easter Bunny becoming members of our Board.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

freelander2, on 23 July 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

As per the latest A&S accounts, the interest rate associated with their debenture is 5%.

AC confirms in the club's press release that the new funding will also attract an interest rate of 5%.

In a perverse sense that's slightly reassuring.

A return of five percent is far higher than what Allen might expect from most other investments, so it could, just perhaps, be a case of him preferring it going into A&S Leisure's account rather than CBC's.

I remain hugely suspicious, mind...

[Spireite-Karl]

Elton John 1866, on 23 July 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

In terms of journalism - I appreciate your views - but it's conjecture and purely "if". Dave Allen needs to come out and "clarifiy" What's happening in the context of the football club/business plan over the next 5 years.

Reduce the debts to a manageable level for the club and Championship football...


Oh, wait a minute

This post has been edited by Spireite-Karl: 23 July 2016 - 01:13 PM

[SpireiteFitzy]

MDCCCLXVI, on 23 July 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

In a perverse sense that's slightly reassuring.

A return of five percent is far higher than what Allen might expect from most other investments, so it could, just perhaps, be a case of him preferring it going into A&S Leisure's account rather than CBC's.

I remain hugely suspicious, mind...

And it remains that the debt has not gone down, just gone to someone else.

Do all Allen's loans come under the same interest rate or all they all separate? Cause hes injected seperate cash amounts a few times to keep wages going as well.

If so will it cost more for us to pay interest of 5% on a much larger amount to him than it was to pay a lesser amount to him and the lesser interest rate to cbc?

[Middle East]

5% interest is way above any commercial rate that DA could secure from a bank and it now effectively means he has full control of the ground which he didn't before!

Haslam had that at mansfailed too and look how that turned out.....I for one am very very very worried!

This post has been edited by Middle East: 23 July 2016 - 07:24 PM

[Sammy Spireite]

Middle East, on 23 July 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

5% interest is way above any commercial rate and it now effectively means DA has full control of the ground which he didn't before! Haslam had that at mansfailed too and look how that turned out.....be afraid be very afraid!

Currently "the club" owns the ground with the a big chunk of the money used to build it owed to AS Leisure (same as you owning your own home even when you owe Nat West £150k on a mortgage). Should the club not be able to maintain repayments, or if the club is seperated from the ground (as happened at Mansfield) that's the time to be very concerned.

[Middle East]

Sammy Spireite, on 23 July 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

Currently "the club" owns the ground with the a big chunk of the money used to build it owed to AS Leisure (same as you owning your own home even when you owe Nat West £150k on a mortgage). Should the club not be able to maintain repayments, or if the club is seperated from the ground (as happened at Mansfield) that's the time to be very concerned.

The time to be concerned is now as if AS leisure want their equity back where do you think that will come from?

or perhaps Nat West will lend the club another £4 million.....

This post has been edited by Middle East: 23 July 2016 - 07:35 PM

[dim view]

Middle East, on 23 July 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

5% interest is way above any commercial rate that DA could secure from a bank and it now effectively means he has full control of the ground which he didn't before!

Haslam had that at mansfailed too and look how that turned out.....I for one am very very very worried!

just had this from Ashley....

Sent Today, 12:11 PM

David
The mortgage with A&S Leisure is fixed at 5%. This is no different to the original mortgage . We have nearly brought everything in house and DA now has first charge. This is only right as he now has over £9m invested in the club.

There are other loans made be him and also other directors, these are a mixture of "Short Term " loans and Debentures. All of these attract an interest rate of 2.5%


Happy for you to post this and hope this clarifies things.

[DIFH]

dim view, on 24 July 2016 - 11:34 AM, said:

just had this from Ashley....

Sent Today, 12:11 PM

David
The mortgage with A&S Leisure is fixed at 5%. This is no different to the original mortgage . We have nearly brought everything in house and DA now has first charge. This is only right as he now has over £9m invested in the club.

There are other loans made be him and also other directors, these are a mixture of "Short Term " loans and Debentures. All of these attract an interest rate of 2.5%


Happy for you to post this and hope this clarifies things.

Does that figure include his original shareholding as they are worthless as it stands.

[Guest_freelander2_*]

dim view, on 24 July 2016 - 11:34 AM, said:

just had this from Ashley....

Sent Today, 12:11 PM

David
The mortgage with A&S Leisure is fixed at 5%. This is no different to the original mortgage . We have nearly brought everything in house and DA now has first charge. This is only right as he now has over £9m invested in the club.

There are other loans made be him and also other directors, these are a mixture of "Short Term " loans and Debentures. All of these attract an interest rate of 2.5%


Happy for you to post this and hope this clarifies things.

Did AC confirm for what reasons the CBC loan has been repaid and more to the point, why now?

[dim view]

freelander2, on 24 July 2016 - 01:36 PM, said:

Did AC confirm for what reasons the CBC loan has been repaid and more to the point, why now?

Hi
No. I never asked.

[s43spire]

Hold on a minute for years now people on this board have been saying ,why should the council wipe the debt ,why doesn't DA pay them off its his club He,s got the money etc etc so now he's paid it off its all smoke and daggers.

Could someone from the bobs board school of accounting explain this?

[Security66]

s43spire, on 24 July 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

Hold on a minute for years now people on this board have been saying ,why should the council wipe the debt ,why doesn't DA pay them off its his club He,s got the money etc etc so now he's paid it off its all smoke and daggers.

Could someone from the bobs board school of accounting explain this?

Just a stab in the dark here but maybe the fans don't trust anything that the club does after being lied to time after time.

This post has been edited by musclelove: 24 July 2016 - 03:47 PM

[azul]

s43spire, on 24 July 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

Hold on a minute for years now people on this board have been saying ,why should the council wipe the debt ,why doesn't DA pay them off its his club He,s got the money etc etc so now he's paid it off its all smoke and daggers.

Could someone from the bobs board school of accounting explain this?

Because he hasn't payed it off, just more debt payable to him (and the interest) - is that good enough

Smoke and Daggers love a mixed metaphor! However Smoke and Mirrors or Cloak and Daggers would do fine, somes up DA antics just about right

This post has been edited by azul: 24 July 2016 - 03:59 PM