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If Cinemas And Pubs Are Re-Opening.......

#101 User is offline   Valley Blues 

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 06:11 PM

View Postdtp, on 11 July 2020 - 06:02 PM, said:

Yes, they and all of us agree on that.

But, there have been disagreements on how to control it's spread including on social distancing and the wearing of masks for instance along with changing their minds as they have learned more about it.

I can’t believe that the inevitable spike from hundreds of thousands of folk protesting together a few weeks ago never materialised.

How can the death toll have steadily declined after so many people totally ignored any form of social distancing?
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#102 User is offline   Mr Mercury 

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 06:30 PM

View PostValley Blues, on 11 July 2020 - 06:11 PM, said:

I can’t believe that the inevitable spike from hundreds of thousands of folk protesting together a few weeks ago never materialised.

How can the death toll have steadily declined after so many people totally ignored any form of social distancing?

Because the virus is losing its potency?
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#103 User is online   The Earl of Chesterfield 

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 06:54 PM

View PostMr Mercury, on 11 July 2020 - 06:30 PM, said:

Because the virus is losing its potency?


The families of 148 people might disagree, today.

Which by the way is double last Saturday's total.
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#104 User is offline   dtp 

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 07:40 PM

View PostBobby Darling, on 10 July 2020 - 10:38 PM, said:

Wrong forum for a debate on that. But if you believe that this Government has based its approach on science you either: don’t listen to scientists, don’t read papers other than the Sun and Express (feel free to read even the Mail and Telegraph) or, which I assume is the case, have absolutely no understanding of what science means in its most basic sense. Just re-read what you written! Neither science nor logic.


I read absolutely no papers at all Bobby.

And, having witnessed the performances of our media friends when we had the daily briefings I have no desire to read what they say ever again. Briefings at which various scientific and medical advisors were also present.

We had the two faced scenario of the media totally ignoring every social distancing rule there has been outside Dominic Cummings house with the audacity to film themselves herding together whilst doing it and then showing their actions on national TV. Not a single apology, not a single recrimination, not a single calling for any resignations, just an acceptance that they are above the rules.

More recently, for a couple of weeks or more they continually badgered whichever minister was on show asking "why can't we reduce from two metres to one like whichever countries they decided to quote?" Then once we reduced from two metres to one they immediately turned to asking questions about "is it safe to do so?". Talk about hypocrisy!!!!!

Then there was one particular scientist member of SAGE they delighted in reporting as saying "he wishes we had locked down earlier" yet he also admitted "they didn't know enough at the time" and he, himself, had resigned from SAGE because he broke the lock-down rules.

So, why should I believe the papers any more than anybody else?
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#105 User is offline   Mr Mercury 

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 07:53 PM

View PostThe Earl of Chesterfield, on 11 July 2020 - 06:54 PM, said:

The families of 148 people might disagree, today.

Which by the way is double last Saturday's total.

The day to day totals are misleading due to the way they're recorded, it could also have been said that the last two days reported deaths were extremely low, the lowest midweek totals since the lockdown, infact I could quote that yesterday's death total was nearly 2/3rds lower than last Fridays! hence today's "spike", the best way to judge is the rolling average which is steadily going down. And the total is going down even though much has returned to something like normal. I keep stressing in post after post that it must be awful to lose someone to this, likewise any illness or disease. But the numbers are slowly declining even though some type of normality is returning, so there must be a reason for that?
It's difficult to know how to type this but the point you make regarding those dying and their families disagreeing, then how low must the figure go before we return to normality, do we still practise lockdown measures while we still have even a single fatality daily? So to return the point, at what level do we allow life to return to normal, as was before. I understand some on here view me as an uncaring ***, to put it mildly, but I try to put perspective on comparing those that have their lives ended or ruined due to Covid, to those that will suffer a very similar fate due to the massive changes on lifestyle that we've had to endure these last few months.
Difficult arguments and discussion points, but one not to shy away from.
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#106 User is online   The Earl of Chesterfield 

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 08:36 PM

View Postdtp, on 11 July 2020 - 07:40 PM, said:

I read absolutely no papers at all Bobby.

And, having witnessed the performances of our media friends when we had the daily briefings I have no desire to read what they say ever again. Briefings at which various scientific and medical advisors were also present.

We had the two faced scenario of the media totally ignoring every social distancing rule there has been outside Dominic Cummings house with the audacity to film themselves herding together whilst doing it and then showing their actions on national TV. Not a single apology, not a single recrimination, not a single calling for any resignations, just an acceptance that they are above the rules.

More recently, for a couple of weeks or more they continually badgered whichever minister was on show asking "why can't we reduce from two metres to one like whichever countries they decided to quote?" Then once we reduced from two metres to one they immediately turned to asking questions about "is it safe to do so?". Talk about hypocrisy!!!!!

Then there was one particular scientist member of SAGE they delighted in reporting as saying "he wishes we had locked down earlier" yet he also admitted "they didn't know enough at the time" and he, himself, had resigned from SAGE because he broke the lock-down rules.

So, why should I believe the papers any more than anybody else?


Is this an attempt at self mocking satire, Dave?

You've spent countless posts challenging Covid protocols to champion a return to games. Finding ways around the very social distancing you here demand from others.

You casually referenced 'Boris' despite his staunch endorsement of the Cummins who instigated the whole media scrum. Where was the apology, recrimination or resignation for his behaviour? For his intelligence insulting arrogance?

You accuse the press of hypocrisy whilst not a word against a twisting, turning, wriggling, squirming and utterly underhand government. 'Badgering ministers'? Y'mean those ministers who've repeatedly ducked difficult interviews and peddled fiddled figures? Joining an often absent 'honest' Johnson in lying through their teeth? Yet it's somehow those seeking the truth who're at fault.

And of course all this from someone who's repeatedly told us to 'draw a line' under what Carson and Co have done. Who insisted the Asses 'only wanted to help no matter what anyone says'. Who only a week or so ago spoke of 'educating' sections of society supposedly lacking the morals so missing on Sheff Road.

'Two faced'?

Couldn't have put it better myself...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 11 July 2020 - 08:48 PM

Spanish proverb: 'Pessimists are just well informed optimists'
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#107 User is offline   Bobby Darling 

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 09:51 PM

View Postdtp, on 11 July 2020 - 07:40 PM, said:

I read absolutely no papers at all Bobby.

And, having witnessed the performances of our media friends when we had the daily briefings I have no desire to read what they say ever again. Briefings at which various scientific and medical advisors were also present.

We had the two faced scenario of the media totally ignoring every social distancing rule there has been outside Dominic Cummings house with the audacity to film themselves herding together whilst doing it and then showing their actions on national TV. Not a single apology, not a single recrimination, not a single calling for any resignations, just an acceptance that they are above the rules.

More recently, for a couple of weeks or more they continually badgered whichever minister was on show asking "why can't we reduce from two metres to one like whichever countries they decided to quote?" Then once we reduced from two metres to one they immediately turned to asking questions about "is it safe to do so?". Talk about hypocrisy!!!!!

Then there was one particular scientist member of SAGE they delighted in reporting as saying "he wishes we had locked down earlier" yet he also admitted "they didn't know enough at the time" and he, himself, had resigned from SAGE because he broke the lock-down rules.

So, why should I believe the papers any more than anybody else?

I find it difficult to answer that post. You’ve stumped me totally. Logic, rationale, forensic examination of facts is obviously never going to alter your view. The media outside DC’s house didn’t need to observe anything or any rules. Their bosses reported what Cummings did. Some papers had writers who condemned it. Some didn’t. I don’t think for a minute that you believe his story but I bet a part of you wanted to.
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#108 User is offline   Goku 

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 12:01 AM

‘I don’t trust the papers because journalists ignored social distancing outside Dominic Cummings’ house’ is a new one that’s for sure.
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#109 User is offline   dtp 

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 07:45 AM

View PostBobby Darling, on 11 July 2020 - 09:51 PM, said:

"The media outside DC’s house didn’t need to observe anything or any rules"


Why didn't they need to observe the rules? Now, I am confused, didn't the rules apply to them?

As far as DC is concerned, whether we believed him or not, he did try some sort of apology and I did say, at the time, that either he should have resigned or be sacked.
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#110 User is offline   dtp 

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 07:55 AM

View PostThe Earl of Chesterfield, on 11 July 2020 - 08:36 PM, said:

Is this an attempt at self mocking satire, Dave?

You've spent countless posts challenging Covid protocols to champion a return to games. Finding ways around the very social distancing you here demand from others.

You casually referenced 'Boris' despite his staunch endorsement of the Cummins who instigated the whole media scrum. Where was the apology, recrimination or resignation for his behaviour? For his intelligence insulting arrogance?

You accuse the press of hypocrisy whilst not a word against a twisting, turning, wriggling, squirming and utterly underhand government. 'Badgering ministers'? Y'mean those ministers who've repeatedly ducked difficult interviews and peddled fiddled figures? Joining an often absent 'honest' Johnson in lying through their teeth? Yet it's somehow those seeking the truth who're at fault.

And of course all this from someone who's repeatedly told us to 'draw a line' under what Carson and Co have done. Who insisted the Asses 'only wanted to help no matter what anyone says'. Who only a week or so ago spoke of 'educating' sections of society supposedly lacking the morals so missing on Sheff Road.

'Two faced'?

Couldn't have put it better myself...


Here we go again, Chris.

My posts about returning to games have not been challenging Covid protocols but trying to work within them.

You'll always have your unbending views of any Tory government whilst ignoring the faults of the other lot.

In my view, and I stick to it, the media have come out pretty poorly throughout this pandemic and they are not above the rules.

And, when have I said "the Asses only wanted to help no matter what anyone says"?

This post has been edited by dtp: 12 July 2020 - 08:12 AM

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#111 User is offline   Westbars Spireite 

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 10:15 AM

Whether some like it or not, it’s reached the stage where a significant number of people are willing to accept an element of risk in their life

Perhaps those people can sign up on a national register and get a card that permits them to attend football matches, go to the theatre or go wife-swapping.
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#112 User is online   The Earl of Chesterfield 

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 10:19 AM

View Postdtp, on 12 July 2020 - 07:55 AM, said:

Here we go again, Chris.

My posts about returning to games have not been challenging Covid protocols but trying to work within them.

You'll always have your unbending views of any Tory government whilst ignoring the faults of the other lot.

In my view, and I stick to it, the media have come out pretty poorly throughout this pandemic and they are not above the rules.

And, when have I said "the Asses only wanted to help no matter what anyone says"?




Here y'go, pal: 'Now, whatever anybody may think, I believe neither Steve Coe nor Lesley Brentnall, for instance, took up their roles at the club for any other reason than they thought they were going to help the club'.

19th Feb on the 'Takeover Update' thread.

Such an 'unbending view' from a bloke who always demands balance kinda stuck in my memory, that's all.

As for the 'other lot' - who I have criticised elsewhere, by the way - they're not in power. The tories are. And they've certainly 'come out pretty poorly throughout this pandemic' and 'aren't above the rules'. Though if you'd rather buy Cummins completely UNapologetic performance and criticise those reporting it, well, maybe that tells us all about 'bending'.

Similarly does quoting non specific scientists and venues applying liberal laws constitute breaking or merely bending the rules? Or turning a selectively blind eye, perhaps. Either way I'll allow others to decide if hypocrisy simply starts and stops with the press...
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#113 User is online   dim view 

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 10:59 AM

View PostWestbars Spireite, on 12 July 2020 - 10:15 AM, said:

Whether some like it or not, it’s reached the stage where a significant number of people are willing to accept an element of risk in their life

Perhaps those people can sign up on a national register and get a card that permits them to attend football matches, go to the theatre or go wife-swapping.

Has it reached the stage where a significant number of at risk people are willing to accept a person with such a card in their personal space? I'd prefer it if you had your card membership number tattoed on your forehead.

This post has been edited by dim view: 12 July 2020 - 11:00 AM

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#114 User is online   dim view 

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 11:05 AM

View Postdtp, on 12 July 2020 - 07:45 AM, said:

Why didn't they need to observe the rules? Now, I am confused, didn't the rules apply to them?

I think the point is that what they reported or photographed was unrelated to how close they were stood to another person.
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#115 User is offline   dtp 

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 11:08 AM

View PostThe Earl of Chesterfield, on 12 July 2020 - 10:19 AM, said:

Here y'go, pal: 'Now, whatever anybody may think, I believe neither Steve Coe nor Lesley Brentnall, for instance, took up their roles at the club for any other reason than they thought they were going to help the club'.

19th Feb on the 'Takeover Update' thread.

Such an 'unbending view' from a bloke who always demands balance kinda stuck in my memory, that's all.

As for the 'other lot' - who I have criticised elsewhere, by the way - they're not in power. The tories are. And they've certainly 'come out pretty poorly throughout this pandemic' and 'aren't above the rules'. Though if you'd rather buy Cummins completely UNapologetic performance and criticise those reporting it, well, maybe that tells us all about 'bending'.

Similarly does quoting non specific scientists and venues applying liberal laws constitute breaking or merely bending the rules? Or turning a selectively blind eye, perhaps. Either way I'll allow others to decide if hypocrisy simply starts and stops with the press...


First of all I must apologise, Chris, for misreading your earlier post. I interpreted your use of the word "Asses" as a way of getting round the swear filter when referring to Carson & Co. Then, I congratulate you on your research on these boards which must be quite time consuming. But, I don't deny what I said about Steve Coe and Lesley Brentnall, Assistant Directors (or ADs) and I wouldn't allow any personal misgivings to get in the way even if I had any.

Regarding reporters it was they that wanted apologies, recriminations, a resignation or sacking for what they considered to be breaking the rules. There's another poster who thinks that reporters are exempt from the rules, but I don't and if you are clammering for a form of justice for breaking the rules then you should be prepared to accept the same justice if you break the rules yourself otherwise, in my book, that is hypocritical. Hypocrisy doesn't start and end with the press but don't even pretend it only extends as far as Bozo's lot.

When it comes to scientists and advisors may I point out even the WHO has changed it's mind on issues as it has learned more about this dreadful virus.

View PostGoku, on 12 July 2020 - 12:01 AM, said:

‘I don’t trust the papers because journalists ignored social distancing outside Dominic Cummings’ house’ is a new one that’s for sure.


Selective posting has always been a strength of yours Goku.

This post has been edited by dtp: 12 July 2020 - 12:00 PM

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#116 User is offline   Westbars Spireite 

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 11:09 AM

View Postdim view, on 12 July 2020 - 10:59 AM, said:

Has it reached the stage where a significant number of at risk people are willing to accept a person with such a card in their personal space? I'd prefer it if you had your card membership number tattoed on your forehead.


Those at risk people will occupy separate spaces. Mask-wearing screenings at the cinema for example at a premium to reflect the higher costs of accommodating those wanting 10 empty seats around them.
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#117 User is offline   dtp 

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 11:11 AM

View Postdim view, on 12 July 2020 - 11:05 AM, said:

I think the point is that what they reported or photographed was unrelated to how close they were stood to another person.


And, I think the point is that they made big noises about an individual breaking lock down rules but they were breaking the same rules themselves as such it is very much related.
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#118 User is online   The Earl of Chesterfield 

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 12:23 PM

View Postdtp, on 12 July 2020 - 11:08 AM, said:

First of all I must apologise, Chris, for misreading your earlier post. I interpreted your use of the word "Asses" as a way of getting round the swear filter when referring to Carson & Co. Then, I congratulate you on your research on these boards which must be quite time consuming. But, I don't deny what I said about Steve Coe and Lesley Brentnall, Assistant Directors (or ADs) and I wouldn't allow any personal misgivings to get in the way even if I had any.

Regarding reporters it was they that wanted apologies, recriminations, a resignation or sacking for what they considered to be breaking the rules. There's another poster who thinks that reporters are exempt from the rules, but I don't and if you are clammering for a form of justice for breaking the rules then you should be prepared to accept the same justice if you break the rules yourself otherwise, in my book, that is hypocritical. Hypocrisy doesn't start and end with the press but don't even pretend it only extends as far as Bozo's lot.

When it comes to scientists and advisors may I point out even the WHO has changed it's mind on issues as it has learned more about this dreadful virus.



Selective posting has always been a strength of yours Goku.


And I aplogise if my exploring your own 'selective posting' gets personal, Dave. I hope we know each other well enough to understand it's just friendly jousting.

For what it's worth I hope the press badger and badger and badger again until there's proper accountabilty for the Covid shambles. It's what makes us different to China.

PS: the SAGE member Van Tamm made it crystal clear what he thought of Cummin's law breaking. Which is probably why we saw so little of him at subsequemt briefings...
Spanish proverb: 'Pessimists are just well informed optimists'
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#119 User is offline   dtp 

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 01:01 PM

View PostThe Earl of Chesterfield, on 12 July 2020 - 12:23 PM, said:

And I aplogise if my exploring your own 'selective posting' gets personal, Dave. I hope we know each other well enough to understand it's just friendly jousting.

For what it's worth I hope the press badger and badger and badger again until there's proper accountabilty for the Covid shambles. It's what makes us different to China.

PS: the SAGE member Van Tamm made it crystal clear what he thought of Cummin's law breaking. Which is probably why we saw so little of him at subsequemt briefings...


I've no problem with your selective postings, Chris, and, as you know, I normally stand by what I have previously said whilst, I admit, I don't necessarily go in to too much researched detail.

Van Tamm was right. I felt DC should have resigned to save the Government further embarrassment rather than try to explain himself. But, I still think the press behaved inappropriately and I still don't get why they didn't need to observe the rules.

The random scientist, I referred to in an earlier post, was Neil Ferguson, by the way.

We'll move on, Chris, and let's hope we have some decent CFC/Trust news to discuss in the coming days.

Take care
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#120 User is offline   Mr Mercury 

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 03:16 PM

View PostThe Earl of Chesterfield, on 11 July 2020 - 06:54 PM, said:

The families of 148 people might disagree, today.

Which by the way is double last Saturday's total.

Back down to 21 deaths, which is by no means belittling the suffering and heartache of the families but just pointing out using daily figures is not an exact science. The seven day average is slowly dropping, which given the way we are slowly coming out of lockdown and there is many more social events is at least a promising sign.
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