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If Cinemas And Pubs Are Re-Opening.......

#1 User is offline   hardgums 

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 03:55 PM

Might the fact that cinemas have been allowed to reopen lead to the prospect of a September start for the National League? The already small fanbase of most NL clubs would mean that fans could feasibly be accommodated under the cinema-style guidance of 1-metre plus. For better-supported clubs, it would mean limiting capacity to enable distancing. In our case, blocking out every other seat in a row well as and removing rows in front or behind the seats in question, might just provide the social distancing required. Given pubs and takeaways are free to trade, then catering becomes an option. Reduced numbers dotted throughout the stadium also puts less pressure on the toilets. Likely capacity at the Technique Stadium with the necessary seats removed - 2,500? Could we survive on that? Season ticket holders only? Not pretty but might just be workable.
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#2 User is offline   Cheshunt Spireite 

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 04:12 PM

The theory is fine, however enforcing it is very difficult if not impossible. Getting even 2.5k people in and out of the stadium while maintaining a 1m gap isn't going to happen- you'd have to allocate people small time slots for entry and exit. During the game itself you'd have to be employing people to clean and police the toilets at all times as well as the stands.

Clubs would likely jump at the chance if it's offered. It's increasingly likely that so long as a second spike doesn't reach the same level as 6 weeks ago I think the government is rightly or wrongly going to allow crowds in October anyway so hopefully some crowds at football will be back soon.
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#3 User is offline   60s 70s Spireite 

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 05:28 PM

View Posthardgums, on 07 July 2020 - 03:55 PM, said:

Might the fact that cinemas have been allowed to reopen lead to the prospect of a September start for the National League? The already small fanbase of most NL clubs would mean that fans could feasibly be accommodated under the cinema-style guidance of 1-metre plus. For better-supported clubs, it would mean limiting capacity to enable distancing. In our case, blocking out every other seat in a row well as and removing rows in front or behind the seats in question, might just provide the social distancing required. Given pubs and takeaways are free to trade, then catering becomes an option. Reduced numbers dotted throughout the stadium also puts less pressure on the toilets. Likely capacity at the Technique Stadium with the necessary seats removed - 2,500? Could we survive on that? Season ticket holders only? Not pretty but might just be workable.

The National League will do as the lower reaches of the EFL. There is no rhyme or reason to go it alone. Moreover the start of the season would need to suit all NL clubs, not just those with a prize modern stadium.
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#4 User is offline   Lincs Spireite 

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 06:00 PM

Social distancing simply won't happen in football stadium's especially at full time.
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#5 User is offline   Nitrous Oxide 

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 06:47 PM

View PostBowzer spirey, on 07 July 2020 - 06:00 PM, said:

Social distancing simply won't happen in football stadium's especially at full time.


Everybody leaving in an orderly procession sounds absolutely laughable. Never likely to happen. But the chances of contracting by short term exposure may hopefully have diminished considerably by then. Fingers crossed around my half full glass
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#6 User is offline   Ernie Ernie Ernie 

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 08:33 PM

[quote name='hardgums' timestamp='1594137319' post='1522743']
Might the fact that cinemas have been allowed to reopen lead to the prospect of a September start for the National League? The already small fanbase of most NL clubs would mean that fans could feasibly be accommodated under the cinema-style guidance of 1-metre plus. For better-supported clubs, it would mean limiting capacity to enable distancing. In our case, blocking out every other seat in a row well as and removing rows in front or behind the seats in question, might just provide the social distancing required. Given pubs and takeaways are free to trade, then catering becomes an option. Reduced numbers dotted throughout the stadium also puts less pressure on the toilets. Likely capacity at the Technique Stadium with the necessary seats removed - 2,500? Could we survive on that? Season ticket holders only? Not pretty but might just be workable.
[/quote

Are you suggesting everyone sits on their own?
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#7 User is offline   Ernie Ernie Ernie 

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 08:36 PM

View PostNitrous Oxide, on 07 July 2020 - 06:47 PM, said:

Everybody leaving in an orderly procession sounds absolutely laughable. Never likely to happen. But the chances of contracting by short term exposure may hopefully have diminished considerably by then. Fingers crossed around my half full glass


If we go 3 down at any time during the second half the procession past those still seated would be fun when the mass exodus started
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#8 User is offline   The Earl of Chesterfield 

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 06:16 AM

I understand folks' enthusiasm for some sort of normality but this is unworkable.

Don't forget seats in front and behind an individual come under distancing, meaning a vastly reduced capacity even with the typically confusing 'meter-plus'.

How do stewards implement mask wearing. Or not. Depending on more hokey-cokey government advice?

How do they know who's a cohabiting family?

How do the Club allocate limited seats - first come first served? To some sort of 'in crowd' elite? Then what about 'here today, gone tomorrow' punters in hospitality whilst regulars are sat at home?

Will some be forced to sit where they don't want whilst others remain in their place of choice?

What about movement within the ground - will folk have to remain in their seats throughout? No concourse sales or toilets or talking to mates?

What about away fans?

How many will be forced to isolate if just one fan tests positive?

Will all this apply to Carson and Co?

All these questions were asked on another thread yet for all the sometimes denial laden optimism none were properly answered. And let's remember more than a hundred and fifty people died yesterday despite the government's attempts to pretend otherwise.

There is one alternative of course - play behind closed doors with canned crowd noises. One thing, though; should they chuck in a few 'Carson Out!' chants to make them truly authentic?

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 08 July 2020 - 06:31 AM

Spanish proverb: 'Pessimists are just well informed optimists'
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#9 User is offline   dtp 

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 06:56 AM

View PostThe Earl of Chesterfield, on 08 July 2020 - 06:16 AM, said:

I understand folks' enthusiasm for some sort of normality but this is unworkable.

Don't forget seats in front and behind an individual come under distancing, meaning a vastly reduced capacity even with the typically confusing 'meter-plus'.

How do stewards implement mask wearing. Or not. Depending on more hokey-cokey government advice?

How do they know who's a cohabiting family? ST's only make spacing of seating, contact tracing more manageable.

How do the Club allocate limited seats - first come first served? To some sort of 'in crowd' elite? Then what about 'here today, gone tomorrow' punters in hospitality whilst regulars are sat at home? As stated above, ST's only.

Will some be forced to sit where they don't want whilst others remain in their place of choice? Most likely as all four Stands could be used for home supporters only to discourage travel.

What about movement within the ground - will folk have to remain in their seats throughout? No concourse sales or toilets or talking to mates? If folk stay in their seats and every other row removed they could be served refreshments where they sit. Toilets need a different exit to entrance with restricted access.

What about away fans? Not allowed. They stay at home.

How many will be forced to isolate if just one fan tests positive? At most, those sat in the same Stand and the Club will already have contact details of all ST's in that area.

Will all this apply to Carson and Co? Not if the Trust, or anybody else, owns the Club.

All these questions were asked on another thread yet for all the sometimes denial laden optimism none were properly answered. And let's remember more than a hundred and fifty people died yesterday despite the government's attempts to pretend otherwise.

There is one alternative of course - play behind closed doors with canned crowd noises. One thing, though; should they chuck in a few 'Carson Out!' chants to make them truly authentic?


I've put a few suggested answers up there for you, Chris.

Try to remain positive.
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#10 User is offline   Valley Blues 

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 08:34 AM

View PostThe Earl of Chesterfield, on 08 July 2020 - 06:16 AM, said:

I understand folks' enthusiasm for some sort of normality but this is unworkable.

Don't forget seats in front and behind an individual come under distancing, meaning a vastly reduced capacity even with the typically confusing 'meter-plus'.

How do stewards implement mask wearing. Or not. Depending on more hokey-cokey government advice?

How do they know who's a cohabiting family?

How do the Club allocate limited seats - first come first served? To some sort of 'in crowd' elite? Then what about 'here today, gone tomorrow' punters in hospitality whilst regulars are sat at home?

Will some be forced to sit where they don't want whilst others remain in their place of choice?

What about movement within the ground - will folk have to remain in their seats throughout? No concourse sales or toilets or talking to mates?

What about away fans?

How many will be forced to isolate if just one fan tests positive?

Will all this apply to Carson and Co?

All these questions were asked on another thread yet for all the sometimes denial laden optimism none were properly answered. And let's remember more than a hundred and fifty people died yesterday despite the government's attempts to pretend otherwise.

There is one alternative of course - play behind closed doors with canned crowd noises. One thing, though; should they chuck in a few 'Carson Out!' chants to make them truly authentic?

How are cinemas operating? I assume the seating arrangements are similar regarding distancing? I assume toilet facilities are available?

I’d imagine implementing a one way system in a football stadium is slightly easier than in a cinema.

I accept they are different beasts but logistically if a cinema can operate in such a closed environment, I’d imagine there will be ways around football stadiums opening.

I’m not sure how long it will be before things return to ‘normal’ but as we didn’t get the horrendous spike we maybe should have expected after the demonstrations up and down the UK in every major city a few weeks ago, where social distancing was thrown out the window, things maybe closer to getting back than we think.
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#11 User is offline   60s 70s Spireite 

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 09:35 AM

View PostValley Blues, on 08 July 2020 - 08:34 AM, said:

How are cinemas operating? I assume the seating arrangements are similar regarding distancing? I assume toilet facilities are available?

I’d imagine implementing a one way system in a football stadium is slightly easier than in a cinema.

I accept they are different beasts but logistically if a cinema can operate in such a closed environment, I’d imagine there will be ways around football stadiums opening.

I’m not sure how long it will be before things return to ‘normal’ but as we didn’t get the horrendous spike we maybe should have expected after the demonstrations up and down the UK in every major city a few weeks ago, where social distancing was thrown out the window, things maybe closer to getting back than we think.

One procedure to be introduced by Cinemas reopening is staggered starts to avoid people congregating in the foyer. Another is no singing/sing alongs. So if we can have various allocated times to attend for spectators (and leave- whether is well before or after the match starts or ends) and no singing, shouting nor cheering, we might be able to follow their lead.

Meanwhile, presumably that's why theatres aren't allowed to open.
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#12 User is offline   dtp 

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 10:10 AM

View Post60s 70s Spireite, on 08 July 2020 - 09:35 AM, said:

One procedure to be introduced by Cinemas reopening is staggered starts to avoid people congregating in the foyer. Another is no singing/sing alongs. So if we can have various allocated times to attend for spectators (and leave- whether is well before or after the match starts or ends) and no singing, shouting nor cheering, we might be able to follow their lead.

Meanwhile, presumably that's why theatres aren't allowed to open.


The biggest difference in my mind between cinemas and football grounds is that one is indoors and the other is outdoors and the various so-called experts consider it is safer being outdoors than indoors.
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#13 User is offline   SpireiteFitzy 

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 10:25 AM

View Postdtp, on 08 July 2020 - 06:56 AM, said:

I've put a few suggested answers up there for you, Chris.

Try to remain positive.


A possible entire stand has to quarantine if one person tests positive? Even if it's not an entire stand you could still go, someone near you tests positive so that's two weeks no work or football and then could go back and the same thing happen again and you've done nothing wrong then your whole family is affected.

People differentiating from cinemas forget cinemas have much smaller capacity than football grounds. Notice how events that have thousands of fans like football matches such as festivals are cancelled all the way through the year and into next because big gatherings are just not manageable at the moment with the virus still in circulation. Hell pubs are already having to shut back down because they have been affected by single cases.

There are far more important things in life than going to a football match right now, let's wait until this damnable thing is under control and it's safe to start going back.
If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything!
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#14 User is offline   DIFH 

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 10:43 AM

View PostThe Earl of Chesterfield, on 08 July 2020 - 06:16 AM, said:

I understand folks' enthusiasm for some sort of normality but this is unworkable.

Don't forget seats in front and behind an individual come under distancing, meaning a vastly reduced capacity even with the typically confusing 'meter-plus'.

How do stewards implement mask wearing. Or not. Depending on more hokey-cokey government advice?

How do they know who's a cohabiting family?

How do the Club allocate limited seats - first come first served? To some sort of 'in crowd' elite? Then what about 'here today, gone tomorrow' punters in hospitality whilst regulars are sat at home?

Will some be forced to sit where they don't want whilst others remain in their place of choice?

What about movement within the ground - will folk have to remain in their seats throughout? No concourse sales or toilets or talking to mates?

What about away fans?

How many will be forced to isolate if just one fan tests positive?

Will all this apply to Carson and Co?

All these questions were asked on another thread yet for all the sometimes denial laden optimism none were properly answered. And let's remember more than a hundred and fifty people died yesterday despite the government's attempts to pretend otherwise.

There is one alternative of course - play behind closed doors with canned crowd noises. One thing, though; should they chuck in a few 'Carson Out!' chants to make them truly authentic?


Playing behind closed doors means signing a full squad, how in our predicament would that be possible with no income folks.
God I hate this league.
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#15 User is offline   Mr Mercury 

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 11:08 AM

View PostSpireiteFitzy, on 08 July 2020 - 10:25 AM, said:

A possible entire stand has to quarantine if one person tests positive? Even if it's not an entire stand you could still go, someone near you tests positive so that's two weeks no work or football and then could go back and the same thing happen again and you've done nothing wrong then your whole family is affected.

People differentiating from cinemas forget cinemas have much smaller capacity than football grounds. Notice how events that have thousands of fans like football matches such as festivals are cancelled all the way through the year and into next because big gatherings are just not manageable at the moment with the virus still in circulation. Hell pubs are already having to shut back down because they have been affected by single cases.

There are far more important things in life than going to a football match right now, let's wait until this damnable thing is under control and it's safe to start going back.

Splitting hairs but the 14 day self isolation applies if you've been within 2 m of someone testing positive for more than 15 mins. So no, the whole stand wouldn't have to quarenteen.
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#16 User is offline   SpireiteFitzy 

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 11:11 AM

View PostMr Mercury, on 08 July 2020 - 11:08 AM, said:

Splitting hairs but the 14 day self isolation applies if you've been within 2 m of someone testing positive for more than 15 mins. So no, the whole stand wouldn't have to quarenteen.


I was responding to the suggestion that it could be one of the things to do.

But as a response then how do you know who has been within 2m of said individual? People sat far away may have come into contact with them. Then everyone within 2m of them has to quarentine etc etc. Its a circle that soon grows and imo is not safely manageable.
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#17 User is offline   Mr Mercury 

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 11:15 AM

View PostSpireiteFitzy, on 08 July 2020 - 10:25 AM, said:

A possible entire stand has to quarantine if one person tests positive? Even if it's not an entire stand you could still go, someone near you tests positive so that's two weeks no work or football and then could go back and the same thing happen again and you've done nothing wrong then your whole family is affected.

People differentiating from cinemas forget cinemas have much smaller capacity than football grounds. Notice how events that have thousands of fans like football matches such as festivals are cancelled all the way through the year and into next because big gatherings are just not manageable at the moment with the virus still in circulation. Hell pubs are already having to shut back down because they have been affected by single cases.

There are far more important things in life than going to a football match right now, let's wait until this damnable thing is under control and it's safe to start going back.

Splitting hairs but the 14 day self isolation applies if you've been within 2 m of someone testing positive for more than 15 mins. So no, the whole stand wouldn't have to quarenteen.

View PostSpireiteFitzy, on 08 July 2020 - 11:11 AM, said:

I was responding to the suggestion that it could be one of the things to do.

But as a response then how do you know who has been within 2m of said individual? People sat far away may have come into contact with them. Then everyone within 2m of them has to quarentine etc etc. Its a circle that soon grows and imo is not safely manageable.

You have to be within 2m of them for 15 continuous minutes, so I'd imagine if the seats are two apart then nobody in effect would have to quarenteen in that situation.
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#18 User is offline   Sammy Spireite 

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 11:27 AM

View PostDIFH, on 08 July 2020 - 10:43 AM, said:

Playing behind closed doors means signing a full squad, how in our predicament would that be possible with no income folks.

Surely the costs of ongoing testing for the players/officials etc makes any return to playing without restrictions being lifted and paying customers just unworkable for most lower league teams.
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#19 User is offline   The Earl of Chesterfield 

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 02:31 PM

View Postdtp, on 08 July 2020 - 06:56 AM, said:

I've put a few suggested answers up there for you, Chris.

Try to remain positive.


So at one fell swoop you'd limit an entire season's attendance to those buying season tickets, Dave? Two, maybe two and a half thousand tops?

No walk-ups or occasional punters just those prepared - or more importantly able - to find four hundred quid up front.

Countless loyal supporters locked out before we even start - and what about cup games?

Then an entire stand of people forced to take two weeks off work and/or away from their family for ninety minutes' football? How many are gonna take that risk?

You still haven't answered how the Club know who's cohabiting with who, either. Or how they police rule breakers. Or away fans turning up anyway. Or who gets their seat of choice and who doesn't. Meanwhile it's no good wishing there was a different crew in the Boardroom, face the question of what those already there should do.

Ideally they'd sit isolated amongst the fans in other stands - but do you honestly think that's gonna happen?

I do like the idea of being waited on, mind. You seem to've forgotten about no beer being drunk in pitch view, though. Are we all to become teetotal?

Nah mate, I know you like to live in a soft hued world at times but we only have to look at some of last weekends' pub scenes to see how Saturday afternoons might turn out. Like it or not football grounds simply aren't the same as cinemas. Worse still there's the threat of elitism, a select few in their usual seats amongst their usual companions yet those not part of an 'in crowd' having to like it or lump it.

Again, I fully understand and sympathise with regulars wanting a return. However until large gatherings can be deemed risk free that looks a long way off...
Spanish proverb: 'Pessimists are just well informed optimists'
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#20 User is offline   dtp 

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 03:03 PM

View PostThe Earl of Chesterfield, on 08 July 2020 - 02:31 PM, said:

So at one fell swoop you'd limit an entire season's attendance to those buying season tickets, Dave? Two, maybe two and a half thousand tops?

No walk-ups or occasional punters just those prepared - or more importantly able - to find four hundred quid up front.

Countless loyal supporters locked out before we even start - and what about cup games?

Then an entire stand of people forced to take two weeks off work and/or away from their family for ninety minutes' football? How many are gonna take that risk?

You still haven't answered how the Club know who's cohabiting with who, either. Or how they police rule breakers. Or away fans turning up anyway. Or who gets their seat of choice and who doesn't. Meanwhile it's no good wishing there was a different crew in the Boardroom, face the question of what those already there should do.

Ideally they'd sit isolated amongst the fans in other stands - but do you honestly think that's gonna happen?

I do like the idea of being waited on, mind. You seem to've forgotten about no beer being drunk in pitch view, though. Are we all to become teetotal?

Nah mate, I know you like to live in a soft hued world at times but we only have to look at some of last weekends' pub scenes to see how Saturday afternoons might turn out. Like it or not football grounds simply aren't the same as cinemas. Worse still there's the threat of elitism, a select few in their usual seats amongst their usual companions yet those not part of an 'in crowd' having to like it or lump it.

Again, I fully understand and sympathise with regulars wanting a return. However until large gatherings can be deemed risk free that looks a long way off...


I merely make suggestions on how things could possibly work in a relatively controlled environment for discussion whereas you just turn everything into a negative, not to be discussed, but just shunned. I've said before, Chris, and I'll say it again it is far easier to oppose ideas/suggestions than make them but if people had not had ideas in the past we would still be stuck in the dark ages.

ST's do not necessarily have to be paid for in one payment. They could be paid for in instalments. Or, do you think that is unfair?

Walk ups create their own problems and could create time consuming difficulties in obtaining contact details on a match day. This might mean taking on additional staff to control queues and gather information which is not cost effective. Do you think it best to add to costs you already criticise as being too high?

And then, I am not suggesting certain supporters are shunned for a whole season only making suggestions for the start of when supporters might be allowed to games and how this could be done. As things become more relaxed then more people could be allowed to attend.

Pleased you like the idea of being waited on but do you really think it is necessary to sup alcohol bearing in mind a good number of supporters drive to games?

When pubs and restaurants take table bookings they do not have to make records of who is cohabiting with who and whether or not certain people are within a family bubble. So why should clubs?

You like to keep referring to the select few and elitism but do you really think this will change if the Trust or any other owner takes over?

This post has been edited by dtp: 08 July 2020 - 03:08 PM

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