[calvin plummers socks]

dtp, on 16 June 2020 - 07:29 PM, said:

I applaud Marcus Rashford for his little campaign but it still doesn't stop me thinking that far too many players at premiership clubs are grossly overpaid.

For every Marcus Rashford how many have done nothing?

What about tv stars, film stars, you, me, CEO’s Elton John etc etc

What have they done- what a terrible ignorant comment to make and pure tabloid reaction. You have no idea what people do or don’t do.

[dtp]

calvin plummers socks, on 17 June 2020 - 06:52 AM, said:

What about tv stars, film stars, you, me, CEO’s Elton John etc etc

What have they done- what a terrible ignorant comment to make and pure tabloid reaction. You have no idea what people do or don’t do.

Don't disagree.

As you seem to be saying, neither I nor you have any idea what people do or don't do. And, there are those from other walks of life that can be included in the "overpaid" bracket too. But, don't let's pretend any other than there are givers and takers at every level just like there are those, with the benefit of hindsight, would have done things differently but never actually had to make decisions at the time.

And then, as it suits the story line, at least Boris listened.

[s42blue]

dtp, on 17 June 2020 - 07:30 AM, said:

Don't disagree.

As you seem to be saying, neither I nor you have any idea what people do or don't do. And, there are those from other walks of life that can be included in the "overpaid" bracket too. But, don't let's pretend any other than there are givers and takers at every level just like there are those, with the benefit of hindsight, would have done things differently but never actually had to make decisions at the time.

And then, as it suits the story line, at least Boris listened.

There was no way the decision wasn’t going to be reversed in my, cynical, opinion.

For £120m Boris gets huge positive reaction from poor people, people who sympathise with, football supporters, BAME...the list goes on. All for a drop in the ocean. Good PR. Just shows what a figure head voice does.

[CFC91]

calvin plummers socks, on 17 June 2020 - 06:52 AM, said:

What about tv stars, film stars, you, me, CEO’s Elton John etc etc

What have they done- what a terrible ignorant comment to make and pure tabloid reaction. You have no idea what people do or don’t do.

Plus they're paying in at 50% probably on their wages. So cutting their wages would only cut the tax they pay and what not.

Rashford work has been excellent and largely under the radar until very recently - he won't be the only one. It just doesnt fit our vile media narrative so likely you won't hear about it until they get caught drink driving or having an affair.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 17 June 2020 - 07:30 AM, said:

Don't disagree.

As you seem to be saying, neither I nor you have any idea what people do or don't do. And, there are those from other walks of life that can be included in the "overpaid" bracket too. But, don't let's pretend any other than there are givers and takers at every level just like there are those, with the benefit of hindsight, would have done things differently but never actually had to make decisions at the time.

And then, as it suits the story line, at least Boris listened.

Well he didn't 'listen' when SKS raised the issue last week.

He didn't 'listen' when instructing cabinet members to double down on the policy.

He didn't 'listen' when whipping his mp's to vote against Rashford's aims.

And he clearly wasn't listening when tories on a select committee discussed the issue with Number Ten.

Unless his 'only heard about it today' bluster was just another lie, of course.

But hey, I'll allow folk to decide for themselves why a part time prime minister who only seems to appear when there's a good news story posted numerous tweets about statues last week yet not a single one on hungry kids...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 17 June 2020 - 09:32 AM

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

dtp, on 16 June 2020 - 07:29 PM, said:

I applaud Marcus Rashford for his little campaign but it still doesn't stop me thinking that far too many players at premiership clubs are grossly overpaid.

For every Marcus Rashford how many have done nothing?

Easy targets will always come in for criticism and envy. You could be critical of most people during this crisis. How many people on here for instance have been off work with nothing to do that could have volunteered to work at the food banks, soup kitchens, food hubs, prescription deliveries etc and haven’t? You can help without being rich.

[dtp]

Quaker, on 18 June 2020 - 01:45 PM, said:

Thankfully, the Labour Chair for Watford (Dame Linda Meehan) is open and honest.

And, don't forget, how well Jeremy listened about anti-semiticism within his party. He listened and listened and listened. But did nowt.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Whataboutery at it's worst.

And from one bloke who's always insisted we 'draw a line under the past' when it's CFC that screws up.

It's taken a twenty two year old footballer to get a government who'd snubbed every other voice to feed hungry kids.

Well done him. Shame on them.

[Westbars Spireite]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 18 June 2020 - 05:45 PM, said:

Whataboutery at it's worst.

And from one bloke who's always insisted we 'draw a line under the past' when it's CFC that screws up.

It's taken a twenty two year old footballer to get a government who'd snubbed every other voice to feed hungry kids.

Well done him. Shame on them.

Whilst behind him I doubt it'll feed many hungry kids in reality. The sorts of parents who make poor decisions now will continue to do so.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Westbars Spireite, on 18 June 2020 - 05:56 PM, said:

Whilst behind him I doubt it'll feed many hungry kids in reality. The sorts of parents who make poor decisions now will continue to do so.

Did you read the tweets that triggered MR's campaign, Tim?

How his mum worked full time yet still couldn't earn enough?

This government's own figures show their u-turn will benefit hundreds of thousands of working poor.

[dtp]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 18 June 2020 - 05:45 PM, said:

Whataboutery at it's worst.

And from one bloke who's always insisted we 'draw a line under the past' when it's CFC that screws up.

It's taken a twenty two year old footballer to get a government who'd snubbed every other voice to feed hungry kids.

Well done him. Shame on them.

No different to one that likes to continue to drag up the past with repetition but ignore it when it doesn't suit.

I've congratulated Rashford for his campaign. Boris spoke with him and did something about it.

Jeremy buried his head in the sand on the issue mentioned and I have yet to see what Sir Keir does.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 18 June 2020 - 06:35 PM, said:

No different to one that likes to continue to drag up the past with repetition but ignore it when it doesn't suit.

I've congratulated Rashford for his campaign. Boris spoke with him and did something about it.

Jeremy buried his head in the sand on the issue mentioned and I have yet to see what Sir Keir does.

''Boris' spoke with him and did something about it'.

Yeah, that's exactly what happened, Dave...

PS: if it's head burying you're concerned about, shall we discuss 'Boris's' promised then dumped investigation into tory islamophobia? The one into Russian electoral interference? We can all play the whataboutery game, pal...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 18 June 2020 - 06:45 PM

[dtp]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 18 June 2020 - 06:38 PM, said:

''Boris' spoke with him and did something about it'.

Yeah, that's exactly what happened, Dave...

PS: if it's head burying you're concerned about, shall we discuss 'Boris's' promised then dumped investigation into tory islamophobia? The one into Russian electoral interference? We can all play the whataboutery game, pal...

I must be mistaken but that's the game I thought you were playing, pal...

[Westbars Spireite]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 18 June 2020 - 06:03 PM, said:

Did you read the tweets that triggered MR's campaign, Tim?

How his mum worked full time yet still couldn't earn enough?

This government's own figures show their u-turn will benefit hundreds of thousands of working poor.

It will benefit them, but not necessarily their children. You used the word ‘hungry’ suggesting it will be the difference between eating and not which will not be the case for more than a tiny handful.

[Happ Hazzard]

I've always thought that all school dinners should be free. School is free, so why not make the dinners free as well? Save money on the bureaucracy regarding free school meals and make sure that every child gets a good nutritious meal at least once a day.

[dtp]

Happ Hazzard, on 18 June 2020 - 08:43 PM, said:

I've always thought that all school dinners should be free. School is free, so why not make the dinners free as well? Save money on the bureaucracy regarding free school meals and make sure that every child gets a good nutritious meal at least once a day.

That's true. But it's what happens outside of schools that is the problem.

We have free school meals for those judged to need them. We also have free contraception but I sometimes wonder why some on benefits and lower incomes seem to have larger than average families. Kids are an expensive item and I was taught not to take on anything I can't afford.

And, I'm somewhat with Westbars here - educating some how to budget better might be worthwhile - food on the table should come before fags and booze.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 19 June 2020 - 08:16 AM, said:

That's true. But it's what happens outside of schools that is the problem.

We have free school meals for those judged to need them. We also have free contraception but I sometimes wonder why some on benefits and lower incomes seem to have larger than average families. Kids are an expensive item and I was taught not to take on anything I can't afford.

And, I'm somewhat with Westbars here - educating some how to budget better might be worthwhile - food on the table should come before fags and booze.

Your pompous posturing over CFC or perhaps 'Boris' is one thing, but this is a despicable generalisation best left to the worst of the right wing rags. Contraception? Larger than average families? What are you suggesting - a quota of kids for folk on benefits? Forced sterilisation?

You sound like that eugenisist 'Boris' hired then refused to sack.

Even this government you view with the same polite deference you view Carson and Co admit millions are using food banks. Millions. Millions more are forced to seek support whilst working full time. Or at least it would be full time if employers didn't give them zero hours contracts. Infact the whole point of Marcus Rashford's campaign - for which you offer only the same grudging acknowledgement as 'Bob's Board' revelations - was that his own mum couldn't feed her family despite toiling every day to do so.

Yet you still refer to some sort of fag smoking, booze supping underclass putting their own ignorant habits before their overpopulated broods. What next - can't they eat cake?!

So who are these people? Where are they? What evidence do you have of them? Other than a few apocryphal stories harrumphed during after dinner brandies at a Rotary Club get together (see, we can all stereotype when we want, can't we).

Because I live on the outskirts of three council estates. One of the most deprived areas in Derbyshire, I understand. But what I see is a great many intelligent and honest people doing their very best in the face of challenges beyond their control. People who see a bottle of beer as an often unaffordable luxury.

So instead of lazy accusations why not let me introduce you to some? Why not have your pious prejudices overturned? Seriously, are you up for it?

At which point you could also explain why it's fine for a fifty five year old millionaire to sire an unknown number of heirs with a succession of different partners yet an unemployed father of four from Birdholme is subject to smears...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 19 June 2020 - 10:23 AM

[dtp]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 19 June 2020 - 10:00 AM, said:

Your pompous posturing over CFC or perhaps 'Boris' is one thing, but this is a despicable generalisation best left to the worst of the right wing rags. Contraception? Larger than average families? What are you suggesting - a quota of kids for folk on benefits? Forced sterilisation?

You sound like that eugenisist 'Boris' hired then refused to sack.

Even this government you view with the same polite deference you view Carson and Co admit millions are using food banks. Millions. Millions more are forced to seek support whilst working full time. Or at least it would be full time if employers didn't give them zero hours contracts. Infact the whole point of Marcus Rashford's campaign - for which you offer only the same grudging acknowledgement as 'Bob's Board' revelations - was that his own mum couldn't feed her family despite toiling every day to do so.

Yet you still refer to some sort of fag smoking, booze supping underclass putting their own ignorant habits before their overpopulated broods. What next - can't they eat cake?!

So who are these people? Where are they? What evidence do you have of them? Other than a few apocryphal stories harrumphed during after dinner brandies at a Rotary Club get together (see, we can all stereotype when we want, can't we).

Because I live on the outskirts of three council estates. One of the most deprived areas in Derbyshire, I understand. But what I see is a great many intelligent and honest people doing their very best in the face of challenges beyond their control. People who see a bottle of beer as an often unaffordable luxury.

So instead of lazy accusations why not let me introduce you to some? Why not have your pious prejudices overturned? Seriously, are you up for it?

At which point you could also explain why it's fine for a fifty five year old millionaire to sire an unknown number of heirs with a succession of different partners yet an unemployed father of four from Birdholme is subject to smears...

Chris, you know as well as I that there are good and bad from all walks of life and there are those that are deserving of help and there are those that take no responsibility for their own actions or their own children.

I am not pompous or a member of any Rotary Club or such like. Like you I live on the edge of a Council Estate too. There are those that have never shown any desire to work and those that will do any form of work they can get. My wife had a cousin with two sons and who we used to try and help financially but if we gave her money to buy food or clothes with she preferred to spend it on fags and cheap vodka. When our nephews were old enough we helped them directly instead without telling her. Both her children learned from their mother's mistakes, one joined the Army and served in Afganhistan 3 times and the other is in the Marines. More recently, my daughters children attended primary school over the border in Nottinghamshire. Collecting my grandchildren from school was an education to behold when standing with the smoking mothers at the school gates. One pregnant woman had a child every year, 5 attending school in different age groups, 2 not old enough to attend yet, and as I said another on the way. She'd show you her latest iPhone whilst telling you she hadn't a clue what she was going to do for food that night. And, she was just one out of several who would talk of getting drunk the previous night etc but having to make do for food that night.

I feel for the kids, I really do. But, if certain parents aren't prepared to take responsibility for their own what are we supposed to do? Do you have any suggestions?

You might have different ideas but I do think that just keep throwing good money after bad at them hasn't worked so why not try educating them and teaching them responsible money management?

This post has been edited by dtp: 19 June 2020 - 04:16 PM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 19 June 2020 - 03:55 PM, said:

Chris, you know as well as I that there are good and bad from all walks of life and there are those that are deserving of help and there are those that take no responsibility for their own actions or their own children.

I am not pompous or a member of any Rotary Club or such like. Like you I live on the edge of a Council Estate too. There are those that have never shown any desire to work and those that will do any form of work they can get. My wife had a cousin with two sons and who we used to try and help financially but if we gave her money to buy food or clothes with she preferred to spend it on fags and cheap vodka. When our nephews were old enough we helped them directly instead without telling her. Both her children learned from their mother's mistakes, one joined the Army and served in Afganhistan 3 times and the other is in the Marines. More recently, my daughters children attended primary school over the border in Nottinghamshire. Collecting my grandchildren from school was an education to behold when standing with the smoking mothers at the school gates. One pregnant woman had a child every year, 5 attending school in different age groups, 2 not old enough to attend yet, and as I said another on the way. She'd show you her latest iPhone whilst telling you she hadn't a clue what she was going to do for food that night. And, she was just one out of several who would talk of getting drunk the previous night etc but having to make do for food that night.

I feel for the kids, I really do. But, if certain parents aren't prepared to take responsibility for their own what are we supposed to do? Do you have any suggestions?

You might have different ideas but I do think that just keep throwing good money after bad at them hasn't worked so why not try educating them and teaching them responsible money management?

Okay, so your missus has a dodgy cousin. So you've met a lousy excuse for a parent. So you've seen some lasses smoking (really? Seriously? Nah, you're not pompous at all, pal...).

Well I've seen all that and more. Much more.

But you're once again talking about an underclass to be somehow controlled. A 'them' to be 'educated' over their 'money management'. To be deprived of already meagre benefits if they don't spend them 'responsibly', perhaps.

What next - unemployed folk fined for being the wrong weight? For wearing the wrong clothes? For having the wrong car or phone or tv?

Hey, no problem if some middle class woman feeds her kids takeaways every night whilst she hits the wine, but how dare anyone spend their dole on a bag of chips or bottle of cider.

Interested to know how the disabled fit into this 'Handmaid's Tale' version of society, too.

This thread began because one of those players you deem overpaid (issues with those earning too much AND too little, Dave?) remembered where he came from and shamed the government into feeding kids. And yeah, I fully accept some of those meals are necessary 'cos of pig ignorant adults. I wonder if his campaign - 'little' or not - would've been necessary were it not for certain other pig ignorant adults, though...