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Next Season Crowds at National League

#1 User is offline   howardb 

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 02:03 PM

Who knows when the season will start but I really believe the National League should be actively talking to the FA about our season starting with fans

We could almost be the guinea pig for how football can emerge from this mess

Sent this note to their Twitter messaging:
]b]Just wondered if The National League were in discussions for the start of the season with fans in attendance. At many clubs attendances were such that social distancing could work (ten clubs averaged under 1500) especially if it was suggested that away fans didn't travel for the first few months to see how it worked. All four sides (OK three in some cases) could be used by home fans, family (one household) allowed to sit or stand together and I would suggest most clubs could easily manage their average home crowds (minus away fans).

The great spin-off is that the National League could become the only League with fans initially which would appeal to TV and to other local football fans that normally support the bigger clubs. Tickets would be restricted to a set capacity and be in demand. A great opportunity and I would, suggest, if you aren't talking about this now, You should be !
[/b][/b]
[[b

Some controversial stuff there, notably the suggestion re away fans but in the current situation it's an olive branch to enable all parts of the stadium to be used. We should be able to fit in 3-4,000 easily

Thoughts welcome

This post has been edited by howardb: 02 June 2020 - 02:06 PM

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#2 User is offline   dtp 

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 04:28 PM

View Posthowardb, on 02 June 2020 - 02:03 PM, said:

Who knows when the season will start but I really believe the National League should be actively talking to the FA about our season starting with fans

We could almost be the guinea pig for how football can emerge from this mess

Sent this note to their Twitter messaging:
]b]Just wondered if The National League were in discussions for the start of the season with fans in attendance. At many clubs attendances were such that social distancing could work (ten clubs averaged under 1500) especially if it was suggested that away fans didn't travel for the first few months to see how it worked. All four sides (OK three in some cases) could be used by home fans, family (one household) allowed to sit or stand together and I would suggest most clubs could easily manage their average home crowds (minus away fans).

The great spin-off is that the National League could become the only League with fans initially which would appeal to TV and to other local football fans that normally support the bigger clubs. Tickets would be restricted to a set capacity and be in demand. A great opportunity and I would, suggest, if you aren't talking about this now, You should be !
[/b][/b]
[[b

Some controversial stuff there, notably the suggestion re away fans but in the current situation it's an olive branch to enable all parts of the stadium to be used. We should be able to fit in 3-4,000 easily

Thoughts welcome


Hi Howard. Hope all is well with you and yours.

We had an earlier thread regarding "could we fit into our ground" previously and I fully agree with your suggestions. With some thought I am sure we could have football with attendances at our level. Obviously, there will be issues to address such as use of toilets, preventing crowding below the stands etc but there is plenty of time between now and whenever the new season starts to start giving this some detailed thought rather than just sitting on hands.
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#3 User is offline   Lincs Spireite 

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 04:54 PM

View Posthowardb, on 02 June 2020 - 02:03 PM, said:

Who knows when the season will start but I really believe the National League should be actively talking to the FA about our season starting with fans

We could almost be the guinea pig for how football can emerge from this mess

Sent this note to their Twitter messaging:
]b]Just wondered if The National League were in discussions for the start of the season with fans in attendance. At many clubs attendances were such that social distancing could work (ten clubs averaged under 1500) especially if it was suggested that away fans didn't travel for the first few months to see how it worked. All four sides (OK three in some cases) could be used by home fans, family (one household) allowed to sit or stand together and I would suggest most clubs could easily manage their average home crowds (minus away fans).

The great spin-off is that the National League could become the only League with fans initially which would appeal to TV and to other local football fans that normally support the bigger clubs. Tickets would be restricted to a set capacity and be in demand. A great opportunity and I would, suggest, if you aren't talking about this now, You should be !
[/b][/b]
[[b

Some controversial stuff there, notably the suggestion re away fans but in the current situation it's an olive branch to enable all parts of the stadium to be used. We should be able to fit in 3-4,000 easily

Thoughts welcome
What a superb idea. I really hope that this has legs and will be a tentative start to football again. Have you sent this to the national press ?
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#4 User is offline   The Earl of Chesterfield 

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 05:42 PM

How many seats constitutes two meters?

Three? Four? That's in front of, behind, and to either side of every punter. One occupied seat in every, what; forty five?

Nah, a total non starter even given the levels our crowds have been driven to.

And who decides who sits where? Who's kicked out their seats whilst others aren't? Do those in the soft seats have priority?

Summat tells me Carson and Co wouldn't want to be scattered 'round the kop end, so a Cummins/government style 'One rule for the elite, a different rule for everyone else' beckons.

I get how desperate folk are for some sort of normality. But surely football should be bottom of the list whilst hundreds are still dying every day...
Spanish proverb: 'Pessimists are just well informed optimists'
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#5 User is online   Mr Mercury 

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 05:45 PM

View PostThe Earl of Chesterfield, on 02 June 2020 - 05:42 PM, said:

How many seats constitutes two meters?

Three? Four? That's in front of, behind, and to either side of every punter. One occupied seat in every, what; forty five?

Nah, a total non starter even given the levels our crowds have been driven to.

And who decides who sits where? Who's kicked out their seats whilst others aren't? Do those in the soft seats have priority?

Summat tells me Carson and Co wouldn't want to be scattered 'round the kop end, so a Cummins/government style 'One rule for the elite, a different rule for everyone else' beckons.

I get how desperate folk are for some sort of normality. But surely football should be bottom of the list whilst hundreds are still dying every day...

Completely agree re crowds and football Chris, it winds me up seeing the lengths the powers that be, Sky etc are going to trying to get the Premier League up and running as though it's a panacea for the masses whilst the average family can't go out for a family drink and a meal together.
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#6 User is offline   CFC91 

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 06:10 PM

Read Surrey we’re thinking of something similar for when cricket returns. They reckons they could get 6000 in socially distanced into their ground (assume Lords or Oval)

I’d be all for it if doable, and would go and watch Matlock if not assuming they were allowed fans back in the ground before we are.
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#7 User is offline   hardgums 

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 06:26 PM

Nice idea from howardb and worth chewing over but I can't see it being a go-er. Too much 'policing' needed and then, of course, as another poster points out there's the issue of toilets! Sorry, but my crystal ball is still saying we're unlikely to see a ball kicked in anger at the Technique until Season 21/22. Can we survive that long? Who knows?
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#8 User is offline   ELTON 2020 

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 06:50 PM

I like the tv concept. Social distancing should be fairly easy. Exiting the stadium would be like an orderly school assembly finishing and kids leaving. This pathetic govt seems to be making it up as we go along and delegating to organisations to use their own common sense. Do we have common sense at CFC?



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This post has been edited by ELTON 2020: 02 June 2020 - 06:52 PM

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#9 User is offline   smiffy 

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 07:11 PM

View Posthardgums, on 02 June 2020 - 06:26 PM, said:

Nice idea from howardb and worth chewing over but I can't see it being a go-er. Too much 'policing' needed and then, of course, as another poster points out there's the issue of toilets! Sorry, but my crystal ball is still saying we're unlikely to see a ball kicked in anger at the Technique until Season 21/22. Can we survive that long? Who knows?

If we are to stay in business and social distancing is still enforced for the foreseable we are in trouble from no gate money. (No Sh#t Sherlock ) Simple way is for fans to cough up season ticket money to watch matches on CFC tv . £5 for every match (46) = £230.00 .With fewer match day staff to pay should go along way to compensating for gate money. Just a thought .

This post has been edited by smiffy: 02 June 2020 - 07:23 PM

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#10 User is offline   dtp 

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 08:16 PM

View PostMr Mercury, on 02 June 2020 - 05:45 PM, said:

Completely agree re crowds and football Chris, it winds me up seeing the lengths the powers that be, Sky etc are going to trying to get the Premier League up and running as though it's a panacea for the masses whilst the average family can't go out for a family drink and a meal together.


Except in NL terms we are not talking about playing games in June 2020. We are talking sometime in the future by which time, like it or not, we are going to have to learn how to live with this virus. Supermarkets have gradually improved their methods of doing business, small shops like butchers and bakers have amended their procedures, other businesses are adapting as they re-open. Pubs and restaurants are working on ways in which they will be able to operate hopefully from July. Golf is now being played after careful planning, some takeaways are operating under stricter conditions. So, is it not beyond the imagination that with planning small crowds can be accommodated safely from say October, November or even January 2021?

But, is it easier to be negative, not give the matter any thought, not plan for the future no matter how different it may be, lockdown forever and say "it can't be done"?

If for a temporary period I had to sit in different seats to my present ST seats then so be it. It is quite possible to guarantee a return to my beloved seats as and when things are better. People won't have to sit in single seats if they are from the same household. AC won't be sitting in the posh seats if the Trust or any other takeover is completed. If anything good has come out of the present scenario it is that I've found people more sociable, family orientated, have more patience when queuing etc, show more respect etc. It's just a pity that the minority have to be constantly told to "be sensible" because in the end that's all we have to be. In 2020 we still have to tell people to "wash their hands" really??? Yes, yet that has disgusted me for many years when I've seen people's toilet behaviour in pubs, restaurants etc, or any other places you care to mention. Ultimately, it is this minority who will spoil it for the majority so should we give in to them? No, not at all, with the level of segregation which might be necessary if spectators are allowed at our level it should be relatively easy to sort out the offending minority if they don't stick to the required rules.

This post has been edited by dtp: 02 June 2020 - 08:23 PM

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#11 User is offline   60s 70s Spireite 

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 08:38 PM

For it to be fair and equitable all clubs in the league would have to be able to accommodate socially distanced crowds. So what about the clubs with little seating? How do you control distancing on the terraces?
What about toilets, queuing to get in the ground? “Could all those seated in seats 45 for rows B, D, F, etc arrive 3 hours before the game”. And so on. If we are the only league allowing attendees, imagine the demand for tickets from all and sundry. Seemingly, from other posts, Matlock would have the same problem.
The day we can attend matches, will be the day horse racing resumes in the normal way, the day golf, tennis, and all other outdoor sports resume with spectators. There is not a solution for football, without being one for all other outdoor sports. It will come the day the danger from the virus has receded sufficiently.

This post has been edited by 60s 70s Spireite: 02 June 2020 - 08:39 PM

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#12 User is offline   The Earl of Chesterfield 

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 09:14 PM

View Postdtp, on 02 June 2020 - 08:16 PM, said:

Except in NL terms we are not talking about playing games in June 2020. We are talking sometime in the future by which time, like it or not, we are going to have to learn how to live with this virus. Supermarkets have gradually improved their methods of doing business, small shops like butchers and bakers have amended their procedures, other businesses are adapting as they re-open. Pubs and restaurants are working on ways in which they will be able to operate hopefully from July. Golf is now being played after careful planning, some takeaways are operating under stricter conditions. So, is it not beyond the imagination that with planning small crowds can be accommodated safely from say October, November or even January 2021?

But, is it easier to be negative, not give the matter any thought, not plan for the future no matter how different it may be, lockdown forever and say "it can't be done"?

If for a temporary period I had to sit in different seats to my present ST seats then so be it. It is quite possible to guarantee a return to my beloved seats as and when things are better. People won't have to sit in single seats if they are from the same household. AC won't be sitting in the posh seats if the Trust or any other takeover is completed. If anything good has come out of the present scenario it is that I've found people more sociable, family orientated, have more patience when queuing etc, show more respect etc. It's just a pity that the minority have to be constantly told to "be sensible" because in the end that's all we have to be. In 2020 we still have to tell people to "wash their hands" really??? Yes, yet that has disgusted me for many years when I've seen people's toilet behaviour in pubs, restaurants etc, or any other places you care to mention. Ultimately, it is this minority who will spoil it for the majority so should we give in to them? No, not at all, with the level of segregation which might be necessary if spectators are allowed at our level it should be relatively easy to sort out the offending minority if they don't stick to the required rules.


You can take pious swipes at negative thinking or ignorant minorities all you want, Dave (though I hope you include government cronies who've certainly not been 'sorted out' in that category).

But you've failed to answer the basic question - how do you social distance in the stadium?

I sit in a seat. I then need four empty ones either side. I then need at least three empty rows in front and behind.

Dunno how you'd apply the two meter thing in the limited disabled sections, either.

And what time do folk turn up to get in? An hour before kick off? Two? Maybe three? What time will they get out afterwards?

That's before we've even consider what happens at half time, too.

Nah mate, it all adds up to a long, sterile, beer free day spent queueing to watch a pale and characterless imitation of what we used to know...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 02 June 2020 - 09:26 PM

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#13 User is offline   johnd51 

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 09:33 PM

It is certainly a good idea for our League to start the ball rolling on this one. Two points I would make:

Given the way the supposed lockdown has collapsed in the last 10 days I can't see any point in having anything other than normal crowds by mid September.

Assuming no vaccine the only way for full public confidence is for a comprehensive test, track and trace system to nip any potential flare-ups in the bud. As of 5pm tonight there have been 228 positive tests in Chesterfield Borough in a population of 104,400. (1 more than yesterday) Surely it has been possible to trace contacts of this relatively small number and ask them to quarantine. If you do this for a month the disease will be all but gone.

Many people have tragically died and there will be more but let's keep the situation in perspective and get back to normal.
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#14 User is offline   SpireiteFitzy 

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 10:10 PM

The trouble is if your implementing social distancing that means you have to open more of the stands meaning you have to hire more staff and stewards to manage and clean them even though they are going to be sparsely populated.

You'll not be able to drum up much of an atmosphere either. It'll be like a pre-season friendly vibe.

And those fans who go with their mates and not family. Will they want to go if they are going to be forced to sit apart and not be able to enjoy the football like they want.


There are bigger problems in the world than been able to watch football safely. There will come a time when we are able to do so once more.
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#15 User is offline   Spire-Power 

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 10:21 PM

I am against any games being played in empty stadiums and,until it is safe to resume normal business, football should be put on ice imo.
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#16 User is offline   dtp 

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 07:20 AM

View PostThe Earl of Chesterfield, on 02 June 2020 - 09:14 PM, said:

You can take pious swipes at negative thinking or ignorant minorities all you want, Dave (though I hope you include government cronies who've certainly not been 'sorted out' in that category).

But you've failed to answer the basic question - how do you social distance in the stadium?

I sit in a seat. I then need four empty ones either side. I then need at least three empty rows in front and behind.

Dunno how you'd apply the two meter thing in the limited disabled sections, either.

And what time do folk turn up to get in? An hour before kick off? Two? Maybe three? What time will they get out afterwards?

That's before we've even consider what happens at half time, too.

Nah mate, it all adds up to a long, sterile, beer free day spent queueing to watch a pale and characterless imitation of what we used to know...


The media are already suggesting one metre apart is sufficient but, if their wish is granted, you can guarantee other members of the media will be saying one metre isn't enough!!!

My thoughts are that we should be planning for the future not today. If football with attendances is six or seven months away we could be talking about a different set of circumstances than those we have today. So, if the powers that be start actually thinking about how it can be done now and then continue to amend that thinking as changes happen in terms of where we are with the virus in the future we might actually get somewhere.

On a different thread I suggested taking every other row out to make it easier to get to seats without brushing up against others in the same row for a starter. Then it should be relatively easy to calculate where we are with existing ST holders in terms of families who can sit together and those that can't. That might or might not come up with enough seats I know but it would give an indication of where we are with seating. Then if we do reduce social distancing to one metre at sometime in the future it becomes a different ball game (to pardon the pun) and the calculations can be updated.

A bone of contention I had from the very first day of seeing the new stadium was the toilet facilities. I said then, and I repeat it now, they should have built in a one way system with a different entrance to the exit. This would allow a better flow of traffic and my thoughts are that as a result of the pandemic this again should be given some consideration for a safer future.

There will be many issues to resolve but unless people actually start forward thinking nothing will move forward. Chinese proverb "Critics don't solve problems".
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#17 User is offline   Waller is my hero 

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 07:32 AM

View Postsmiffy, on 02 June 2020 - 07:11 PM, said:

If we are to stay in business and social distancing is still enforced for the foreseable we are in trouble from no gate money. (No Sh#t Sherlock ) Simple way is for fans to cough up season ticket money to watch matches on CFC tv . £5 for every match (46) = £230.00 .With fewer match day staff to pay should go along way to compensating for gate money. Just a thought .

I mentioned this a while ago -this is something that many clubs need to introduce.
You could even go as far as paying £10 to watch a home match live & £5 for an away match, with a yearly subscription fee.

Even when all this calms down & people start to feel a sense of normality, there are still going to be people who are still anxious about going into public places & stopping themselves from experiencing the things they normally enjoyed...like watching football.
Having a TV channel helps those people...i for one, feel anxious going out because some people are just stupid with a complete disregard for the current situation.

There could be huge benefits to this, especially if the team is doing well...it attracts more interest, it attracts more subscriptions, it attracts more fans

And when everything is clear & everyone is confident, you will see huge crowds at football matches - CFC alongside 2 or 3 more teams in the national league are going to be fortunate enough to be a more 'stable' club unlike others in the league as they only attract sub 1000 fans...these are the clubs that are in big trouble.
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#18 User is offline   60s 70s Spireite 

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 07:54 AM

View Postdtp, on 03 June 2020 - 07:20 AM, said:

The media are already suggesting one metre apart is sufficient but, if their wish is granted, you can guarantee other members of the media will be saying one metre isn't enough!!!

My thoughts are that we should be planning for the future not today. If football with attendances is six or seven months away we could be talking about a different set of circumstances than those we have today. So, if the powers that be start actually thinking about how it can be done now and then continue to amend that thinking as changes happen in terms of where we are with the virus in the future we might actually get somewhere.

On a different thread I suggested taking every other row out to make it easier to get to seats without brushing up against others in the same row for a starter. Then it should be relatively easy to calculate where we are with existing ST holders in terms of families who can sit together and those that can't. That might or might not come up with enough seats I know but it would give an indication of where we are with seating. Then if we do reduce social distancing to one metre at sometime in the future it becomes a different ball game (to pardon the pun) and the calculations can be updated.

A bone of contention I had from the very first day of seeing the new stadium was the toilet facilities. I said then, and I repeat it now, they should have built in a one way system with a different entrance to the exit. This would allow a better flow of traffic and my thoughts are that as a result of the pandemic this again should be given some consideration for a safer future.

There will be many issues to resolve but unless people actually start forward thinking nothing will move forward. Chinese proverb "Critics don't solve problems".

If you took every other row out, and kept a two seat distance between spectators, by my reckoning you have reduced capacity to around 1600. Which of the 3000 season ticket holders would be allowed to attend? What about the turnstiles- are they to be cleaned after every turn? What about a club like Dover, who only have c.1000 seats? Using the same system they would be allowed little more than 160 at the match. What about the players? Would they be happy playing and making contact during training and matches when the virus was still around? What if they are shielding someone at home? How will clubs be able to cover their costs with the much reduced capacity and without also selling food and beverages, and offering corporate entertainment?
Not sure about the Chinese proverb, but I do know good planners map out all the pluses and the minuses, and then ensure all the minuses are properly overcome.
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#19 User is offline   Ernie Ernie Ernie 

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 08:04 AM

View Post60s 70s Spireite, on 02 June 2020 - 08:38 PM, said:

For it to be fair and equitable all clubs in the league would have to be able to accommodate socially distanced crowds. So what about the clubs with little seating? How do you control distancing on the terraces?
What about toilets, queuing to get in the ground? “Could all those seated in seats 45 for rows B, D, F, etc arrive 3 hours before the game”. And so on. If we are the only league allowing attendees, imagine the demand for tickets from all and sundry. Seemingly, from other posts, Matlock would have the same problem.
The day we can attend matches, will be the day horse racing resumes in the normal way, the day golf, tennis, and all other outdoor sports resume with spectators. There is not a solution for football, without being one for all other outdoor sports. It will come the day the danger from the virus has receded sufficiently.


It’s. It just going to the toilets but getting to them. You may be many seats away from the next person but if they decide they need the toilet they have to come directly past you. But different to a shop as when the ref doesn’t give a clear penalty people will be up spewing anger and spit all over the place.
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#20 User is online   dim view 

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 08:13 AM

View Post60s 70s Spireite, on 03 June 2020 - 07:54 AM, said:

If you took every other row out, and kept a two seat distance between spectators, by my reckoning you have reduced capacity to around 1600. Which of the 3000 season ticket holders would be allowed to attend? What about the turnstiles- are they to be cleaned after every turn? What about a club like Dover, who only have c.1000 seats? Using the same system they would be allowed little more than 160 at the match. What about the players? Would they be happy playing and making contact during training and matches when the virus was still around? What if they are shielding someone at home? How will clubs be able to cover their costs with the much reduced capacity and without also selling food and beverages, and offering corporate entertainment?
Not sure about the Chinese proverb, but I do know good planners map out all the pluses and the minuses, and then ensure all the minuses are properly overcome.

Perhaps Ashley could have a word about us playing our home matches at Hillsborough?

Seriously though, the viability of this would have to be an international standard. You can't have different rules at different clubs. Are there any suggestions to solve this problem anywhere in the world that are getting positive reviews?
Get it on, bang the gong , get it on
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