[Sammy Spireite]

Mentioned this on the last thread but surely the issues around an emergency evacuation would mean such a sceanrio unimplementable?

Can you imagine trying to keep everyone 2m apart and emptying a row at a time under the panic of a fire alarm?

no thanks

[60s 70s Spireite]

Sammy Spireite, on 03 June 2020 - 08:00 PM, said:

Mentioned this on the last thread but surely the issues around an emergency evacuation would mean such a sceanrio unimplementable?

Can you imagine trying to keep everyone 2m apart and emptying a row at a time under the panic of a fire alarm?
no thanks

And the answer is......wait until the disease is seemingly eradicated, and then allow full attendance. Only action needed would be to have a record of all attendees matched to seats allocated so there can be contact tracing in case of a later identified case.
By courtesy of and copyright: New Zealand government and NZ Rugby.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 03 June 2020 - 06:39 PM, said:

Apologies not needed, Chris.

Cummings should have been asked to resign and if he didn't he should have been fired. I somewhat understood his dilemma but what he did was not in the spirit of the lockdown measures he should have been setting an example of.

There seems as if there might have been a bit of a breakthrough with the Trust and if there is I would like to think the NAPM lot will return if room can be found for them within any crowd restrictions which might be necessary. If they don't eventually return I am not sure that fits with the spirit of the reasons for them staying away in the first place though.

Not sure why you're so obsessed with NAPM folk Dave, but 'If room can be found for them'?

Errr, yeah, thanks for the charity...

You've unwittingly amplified one of the still unanswered questions, though - who decides who sits where in this drastically limited capacity?

Infact how would you feel if turned away because a long term stayaway fancied an afternoon out?

You see the problem.

PS: you 'understood daytripping Dom's dilemma'? Well me too - how did he lie his way out of driving a high end motor through his own rules - literally!

[johnd51]

How do we define 'when the virus has passed'? No new cases in town again today.

Covid and its variants will be here forever. Testing with fast turnaround of results plus track and trace would squeeze the problem but we appear to be no nearer achieving this.

[dtp]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 03 June 2020 - 09:42 PM, said:

Not sure why you're so obsessed with NAPM folk Dave, but 'If room can be found for them'?

Errr, yeah, thanks for the charity...

You've unwittingly amplified one of the still unanswered questions, though - who decides who sits where in this drastically limited capacity?

Infact how would you feel if turned away because a long term stayaway fancied an afternoon out?

You see the problem.

PS: you 'understood daytripping Dom's dilemma'? Well me too - how did he lie his way out of driving a high end motor through his own rules - literally!

I don't know how he wriggled out of it Chris. However, if I was put in the same position as him, if he was telling the truth, with his youngster I ask myself "what would I have done?". Also, interesting that the police only thought he committed a minor infringement of the rules. Then, talking about breaking the rules, I've not seen anywhere where the very media clammering for his blood blatantly gathered in a crowd outside his house totally ignoring any form of social distancing have either apologised or been punished for their behaviour.

Regarding NAPM, I want to see everyone of them back attending games and that's what they want to do if they are true to their word.

Regarding myself and family, we will be ST holders and will abide by whatever the conditions are of them being issued but I would like to think that when things get back to more like normality it can be guaranteed that we can have our old seats back. Regarding who sits where logically ST holders would be accommodated first on a first come first served basis with seating offered according to any plans drawn up.

[dtp]

johnd51, on 03 June 2020 - 10:56 PM, said:

How do we define 'when the virus has passed'? No new cases in town again today.

Covid and its variants will be here forever. Testing with fast turnaround of results plus track and trace would squeeze the problem but we appear to be no nearer achieving this.

Interesting that you say no new cases in town again today. Where do you get your info from and does this just cover the Borough or any outlying areas as well?

[Spire-Power]

dtp, on 04 June 2020 - 06:15 AM, said:

Interesting that you say no new cases in town again today. Where do you get your info from and does this just cover the Borough or any outlying areas as well?

I think it relates to the Royal hospital

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 04 June 2020 - 06:12 AM, said:

I don't know how he wriggled out of it Chris. However, if I was put in the same position as him, if he was telling the truth, with his youngster I ask myself "what would I have done?". Also, interesting that the police only thought he committed a minor infringement of the rules. Then, talking about breaking the rules, I've not seen anywhere where the very media clammering for his blood blatantly gathered in a crowd outside his house totally ignoring any form of social distancing have either apologised or been punished for their behaviour.

Regarding NAPM, I want to see everyone of them back attending games and that's what they want to do if they are true to their word.

Regarding myself and family, we will be ST holders and will abide by whatever the conditions are of them being issued but I would like to think that when things get back to more like normality it can be guaranteed that we can have our old seats back. Regarding who sits where logically ST holders would be accommodated first on a first come first served basis with seating offered according to any plans drawn up.

Not gonna go through the daytripping Dom thing again other than to say it was a litany of lies. From a bloke caught pants down. As confirmed by the Plod. Regardless of any diversions about the press.

But the point in terms of this thread is it was one law for him and a different law for everyone else. Summat that should never be imposed on Town fans.

And it's no good wishing social distancing away just as it's no good wishing all the other restrictions away. They're here, they're here for a long time to come, and they have to be obeyed. Okay, we can talk about how many local infections there are, but the UK still has the second highest fatality figures in the world.

So we're back to the basic question: who decides where punters sit in a stadium reduced to fewer seats than'd accommodate even our sub Saltergate standard season ticket sales?

Well here's my solution: isolated seats sold on a first come, first served basis. No season tickets. You get what you get where you get it. No concourse sales and steward regulated toilet visits. Similarly isolated tables in hospitality served by properly protected staff. All transactions by contactless card.

And in the spirit of 'all in this together' the board, whoever they may be, abide by the same rules. They sit amongst the fans.

All a bit too soulless and sterile for me but hey, if punters wanna take their chances that's their choice. Though you've gotta wonder if all that palaver'd really be worthwhile...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 04 June 2020 - 07:42 AM

[Voiceofjoe]

Sammy Spireite, on 03 June 2020 - 08:00 PM, said:

Mentioned this on the last thread but surely the issues around an emergency evacuation would mean such a sceanrio unimplementable?

Can you imagine trying to keep everyone 2m apart and emptying a row at a time under the panic of a fire alarm?

no thanks

Government Covid Guidelines for businesses state that in an emergency evacuation the 2m guidance doesn’t apply, (as there’s obviously a modicum of common sense applied in such instances.)

[Sammy Spireite]

Voiceofjoe, on 04 June 2020 - 09:02 AM, said:

Government Covid Guidelines for businesses state that in an emergency evacuation the 2m guidance doesn’t apply, (as there’s obviously a modicum of common sense applied in such instances.)

Well, you might want to risk yours and your loved ones health in thay way, but I certainly woulnd't.

[dim view]

johnd51, on 03 June 2020 - 10:56 PM, said:

How do we define 'when the virus has passed'? No new cases in town again today.

Covid and its variants will be here forever. Testing with fast turnaround of results plus track and trace would squeeze the problem but we appear to be no nearer achieving this.

The answer to this is surely the invention of a Spectator PPE mask that must be worn in public and has a strict procedure involving thoroughly cleansing of hands and mask on removal.

Put Mike Ashley and F1 inventors together and see what they can do. I'd pay a couple of hundred quid for the privilege given the freedom that it would bring if it were a quality product that rendered the 2 metre rule unnecessary.

[SpireiteFitzy]

dim view, on 04 June 2020 - 10:45 AM, said:

The answer to this is surely the invention of a Spectator PPE mask that must be worn in public and has a strict procedure involving thoroughly cleansing of hands and mask on removal.

Put Mike Ashley and F1 inventors together and see what they can do. I'd pay a couple of hundred quid for the privilege given the freedom that it would bring if it were a quality product that rendered the 2 metre rule unnecessary.

Yeah cause with the economy nosediving into recession and more and more people losing jobs everyone is just going to have a spare few hundred quid lying around to purchase a mask to allow them to watch football which they also have to fork out for.

How would it work? The privileged few go back with their expensive masks and everyone else has to wait until someone decides it's safe to ease social distancing. That'd be a mighty quick way to encourage people to find something a little more inclusive to do on their Saturday afternoons.

[dim view]

SpireiteFitzy, on 04 June 2020 - 11:12 AM, said:

Yeah cause with the economy nosediving into recession and more and more people losing jobs everyone is just going to have a spare few hundred quid lying around to purchase a mask to allow them to watch football which they also have to fork out for.

How would it work? The privileged few go back with their expensive masks and everyone else has to wait until someone decides it's safe to ease social distancing. That'd be a mighty quick way to encourage people to find something a little more inclusive to do on their Saturday afternoons.

The price would be set by supply and demand laws. Free with a season ticket?

[SpireiteFitzy]

dim view, on 04 June 2020 - 11:28 AM, said:

The price would be set by supply and demand laws. Free with a season ticket?

Then how do Ashley and the F1 guys make money? Do the clubs have to buy them off them? And if the clubs are spending a tonne of money buying them then they can't just give them away as they'd lose money. The price of a season ticket would increase even higher to recoup said money and ours are already on the expensive side.

I understand why people are looking for solutions to go back and watch football (believe me no one wants to go back more than me cause I've spent a long time waiting for DA and co to get lost and the club be run by people who care) but just remember the last few years and what the rotten core of this club has done to fan trust. The club needs to be open to all when it allows fans back especially if the Trust is in charge, they can't afford any bad PR and appearing to be closed to a section of the fanbase cause they can't afford season tickets or expensive PPE would be a disaster.

[Sammy Spireite]

dim view, on 04 June 2020 - 11:28 AM, said:

The price would be set by supply and demand laws. Free with a season ticket?

The last thing the club needs is to be caught up in the mask/ppe selling game, there is already enough suspect and shady companies popping up left, right and centre claiming to be offering all kinds of capable masks when in reality most if not all aren't approved to a level suitable enough to protect against C-19.

And to see people fashioning 'masks' from old socks/knickers etc is laughable too, as they offer very little, if any protection at all.

If I ***** with denim jeans on, my Mrs can still smell it!

Edit: the **** is 'doing a donald t....' in case anyone wonders what i do in my jeans!

This post has been edited by Sammy Spireite: 04 June 2020 - 12:13 PM

[dtp]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 04 June 2020 - 07:37 AM, said:

Not gonna go through the daytripping Dom thing again other than to say it was a litany of lies. From a bloke caught pants down. As confirmed by the Plod. Regardless of any diversions about the press.

But the point in terms of this thread is it was one law for him and a different law for everyone else. Summat that should never be imposed on Town fans.

And it's no good wishing social distancing away just as it's no good wishing all the other restrictions away. They're here, they're here for a long time to come, and they have to be obeyed. Okay, we can talk about how many local infections there are, but the UK still has the second highest fatality figures in the world.

So we're back to the basic question: who decides where punters sit in a stadium reduced to fewer seats than'd accommodate even our sub Saltergate standard season ticket sales?

Well here's my solution: isolated seats sold on a first come, first served basis. No season tickets. You get what you get where you get it. No concourse sales and steward regulated toilet visits. Similarly isolated tables in hospitality served by properly protected staff. All transactions by contactless card.

And in the spirit of 'all in this together' the board, whoever they may be, abide by the same rules. They sit amongst the fans.

All a bit too soulless and sterile for me but hey, if punters wanna take their chances that's their choice. Though you've gotta wonder if all that palaver'd really be worthwhile...

Don't agree with your suggestion of no STs, Chris. For the sake of stewarding inside the stadium if every seat was occupied by a ST holder it would be easy to identify anybody stepping out of line and there could be a condition of sale that if one can't respect the rules the ST will be withdrawn without any cash refund. Also, if STs are sold on a first come first served basis seating could be controlled as they are issued so that families are grouped together etc. Going forward there would be less contact for payments because just one payment would cover the league season.

You, didn't mention if you thought the media behaved themselves or not outside DC's house or do you think it should be one law for them and another for us?

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 04 June 2020 - 12:15 PM, said:

Don't agree with your suggestion of no STs, Chris. For the sake of stewarding inside the stadium if every seat was occupied by a ST holder it would be easy to identify anybody stepping out of line and there could be a condition of sale that if one can't respect the rules the ST will be withdrawn without any cash refund. Also, if STs are sold on a first come first served basis seating could be controlled as they are issued so that families are grouped together etc. Going forward there would be less contact for payments because just one payment would cover the league season.

You, didn't mention if you thought the media behaved themselves or not outside DC's house or do you think it should be one law for them and another for us?

Everyone should observe social distancing, Dave.

Though by your own criteria it can't have been too bad 'cos the plod didn't intervene.

But anyway, I'm not surprised you don't agree with the season ticket thing. Bit too close to home, perhaps?

And what do you mean by 'family groups'? I'm pretty sure they'd all have to be living in the same house; so how many are you talking? Couples? Couples and kids? Then how do you prove they really are co-habiting? What happens if a 'new face' suddenly appears? Sorry pal, but even families being 'grouped together' is against government guidelines.

It's still creating haves and have nots, too. Would you be happy to sit out the entire season 'cos you were number sixteen hundred and one on the list? Happy to sit at home whilst folk prepared to pay hospitality prices get in? Possibly even Carson and Co cronies on a freebie?

Meanwhile we haven't even mentioned those who can't afford a ST, can't get every week, or just wanna pick and choose their games. Again, two tier Town fans.

Nah mate, the only possible way of doing this is individual seats sold on a 'once they're gone they're gone' basis. Okay, some might miss out one week but they'd get another chance the next.

How an already criticised IT system copes with all that is anyone's guess, mind...

[dtp]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 04 June 2020 - 03:18 PM, said:

Everyone should observe social distancing, Dave.

Though by your own criteria it can't have been too bad 'cos the plod didn't intervene.

But anyway, I'm not surprised you don't agree with the season ticket thing. Bit too close to home, perhaps?

And what do you mean by 'family groups'? I'm pretty sure they'd all have to be living in the same house; so how many are you talking? Couples? Couples and kids? Then how do you prove they really are co-habiting? What happens if a 'new face' suddenly appears? Sorry pal, but even families being 'grouped together' is against government guidelines.

It's still creating haves and have nots, too. Would you be happy to sit out the entire season 'cos you were number sixteen hundred and one on the list? Happy to sit at home whilst folk prepared to pay hospitality prices get in? Possibly even Carson and Co cronies on a freebie?

Meanwhile we haven't even mentioned those who can't afford a ST, can't get every week, or just wanna pick and choose their games. Again, two tier Town fans.

Nah mate, the only possible way of doing this is individual seats sold on a 'once they're gone they're gone' basis. Okay, some might miss out one week but they'd get another chance the next.

How an already criticised IT system copes with all that is anyone's guess, mind...

Obviously, we will have to agree to disagree regarding ticketing and seating. At this point in time it is correct to assume I meant members of the same household when I said family groups. There are several married couples sitting around me, fathers and sons, and, of course, we have a part of the East Stand allocated to families as well. Are you suggesting that if a man and his wife want to take three young kids they should all sit in individual seats socially distanced?

Again, at this point in time, we do not know when the new NL season will start nor what social distancing rules will be in existence when it does. Furthermore, the season will last for quite a few months, more months than we have been under lockdown to date, so there is a possibility that as the season progresses further relaxing of restrictions could come into play thus allowing higher attendances towards the end compared to earlier on. Creating queues to buy tickets for a minimum of 23 times a season, allocating seats for a minimum of 23 times a season, makes no sense compared to once a season and is far less cost effective both for the club and the supporter.

I agree the plod didn't intervene regarding the media but they, themselves, had the audacity to film themselves flaunting the rules of crowding and social distancing. There was all the evidence required showing there own filming on TV for everybody to see. I find it disgusting that more was not made of it. Also, as I have said DC should have resigned or be fired but, again, whilst we are talking about the lies involved it has been reported by the very media, yet again, that one of the witnesses they based stories on was in fact lie int himself.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 04 June 2020 - 04:54 PM, said:

Obviously, we will have to agree to disagree regarding ticketing and seating. At this point in time it is correct to assume I meant members of the same household when I said family groups. There are several married couples sitting around me, fathers and sons, and, of course, we have a part of the East Stand allocated to families as well. Are you suggesting that if a man and his wife want to take three young kids they should all sit in individual seats socially distanced?

Again, at this point in time, we do not know when the new NL season will start nor what social distancing rules will be in existence when it does. Furthermore, the season will last for quite a few months, more months than we have been under lockdown to date, so there is a possibility that as the season progresses further relaxing of restrictions could come into play thus allowing higher attendances towards the end compared to earlier on. Creating queues to buy tickets for a minimum of 23 times a season, allocating seats for a minimum of 23 times a season, makes no sense compared to once a season and is far less cost effective both for the club and the supporter.

I agree the plod didn't intervene regarding the media but they, themselves, had the audacity to film themselves flaunting the rules of crowding and social distancing. There was all the evidence required showing there own filming on TV for everybody to see. I find it disgusting that more was not made of it. Also, as I have said DC should have resigned or be fired but, again, whilst we are talking about the lies involved it has been reported by the very media, yet again, that one of the witnesses they based stories on was in fact lie int himself.

It's not me saying family members from different households can't mix, Dave - it's the government!

And as a law abiding citizen I'm sure you'd never advocate breaking the rules. So, individual seats it is, then. Well until the government changes it's mind again, anyway.

Gotta say there's a lot of the government's briefings about your second paragraph, too. Loadsa words, no real answers. You requested a considered way forward and I suggested one fair to all. Why are you so reluctant to embrace it - 'cos you might not be one of the 'haves', perhaps?

Not sure why you're still trying to mitigate the daytripping Dom debacle, either. He admitted breaking his own rules, on at least four separate occasions, yet not only refused to apologise but was backed by Bozo. In total contrast to prof Ferg, that scottish woman and a Labour MP.

Government advisors, Carson and Co, season ticket holders or occasional punters my point hasn't changed since my first post: the same standards for all.

[Spire-Power]

Sammy Spireite, on 04 June 2020 - 12:00 PM, said:

The last thing the club needs is to be caught up in the mask/ppe selling game, there is already enough suspect and shady companies popping up left, right and centre claiming to be offering all kinds of capable masks when in reality most if not all aren't approved to a level suitable enough to protect against C-19.

And to see people fashioning 'masks' from old socks/knickers etc is laughable too, as they offer very little, if any protection at all.

If I ***** with denim jeans on, my Mrs can still smell it!

Edit: the **** is 'doing a donald t....' in case anyone wonders what i do in my jeans!

Guessing DV realises he has made an elitist comment and is trying to wriggle out of it! Why don't we all just forget about going to games until it's safer to do that?