[moondog]

Spire-Power, on 16 August 2019 - 06:40 PM, said:

Some one else? Is that all I am to you now?

😁 actually I did edit before you mentioned it

[Spire-Power]

moondog, on 16 August 2019 - 06:41 PM, said:

😁 actually I did edit before you mentioned it

Just seen it. All is forgiven.

[dim view]

moondog, on 16 August 2019 - 06:36 PM, said:

As stated above no, they have to declare to the league but aren't obliged to publish and the league (EFL) certainly won't as the higher declared attendances suit them, so they can mislead sponsors and potential sponsors that attendances are higher than those in the past.

I've previously asked the EFL for other clubs figures but they refuse to provide saying get them from the clubs

Ta. This is probably getting boring for folk now, but if at season end the EFL stattos publish clubs' private declarations as a total or an average to tabularise (so supporters can see how attendances stack up against other clubs), then the total number of ST no shows can easily be calculated by comparing against the total attendances that Carson publicly releases...

or am I missing summat?

Where, for example, does soccerstats.com get it's information from?

and, footballwebpages.co.uk, National League 2018..

TEAM SUM AVERAGE

1 Leyton Orient 125.227 5.445
2 Wrexham AFC 116.766 5.077
3 Chesterfield FC 103.595 4.504
4 Hartlepool United 71.871 3.125

[Looker-on]

dim view, on 17 August 2019 - 07:18 AM, said:

Ta. This is probably getting boring for folk now, but if at season end the EFL stattos publish clubs' private declarations as a total or an average to tabularise (so supporters can see how attendances stack up against other clubs), then the total number of ST no shows can easily be calculated by comparing against the total attendances that Carson publicly releases...

or am I missing summat?

Where, for example, does soccerstats.com get it's information from?

and, footballwebpages.co.uk, National League 2018..

TEAM SUM AVERAGE

1 Leyton Orient 125.227 5.445
2 Wrexham AFC 116.766 5.077
3 Chesterfield FC 103.595 4.504
4 Hartlepool United 71.871 3.125

They are likely to get the info from a central agency, like the Press Association, or Opta. I don't know who does this for the National League, but someone will. They will get the figures from the clubs. The CFC attendance figure is the 23-game total of the one that the club declared on a match-by-match basis, so it will be attenders plus no-shows - the total of tickets sold (and given away, too, I would expect.)

[dim view]

Looker-on, on 17 August 2019 - 09:03 AM, said:

They are likely to get the info from a central agency, like the Press Association, or Opta. I don't know who does this for the National League, but someone will. They will get the figures from the clubs. The CFC attendance figure is the 23-game total of the one that the club declared on a match-by-match basis, so it will be attenders plus no-shows - the total of tickets sold (and given away, too, I would expect.)

Do you know if the other clubs apply the same criteria?

[moondog]

dim view, on 17 August 2019 - 09:29 AM, said:

Do you know if the other clubs apply the same criteria?

I think it is left to the clubs to choose but certainly tickets sold is not discouraged.

I did ask if they could publish the overall total of actual attendees by division but it fell on deaf ears as I was curious to know if our % was typical.

It's a shame they are not covered under the Freedom of Information Act

[Blue5]

moondog, on 14 August 2019 - 05:28 PM, said:

Yes I can confirm the refusal to provide the numbers

Graham Bean is being a little short-sighted here because withholding the number of no shows serves no purpose other than to fuel the suspicion. The CEO is said to have actively reduced the number of complimentary (or linked to sponsorship deals) season tickets in circulation, he should be the very one actively releasing the information to demonstrate the results of his cull.

This post has been edited by Blue5: 17 August 2019 - 09:50 AM

[dim view]

Blue5, on 17 August 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

Graham Bean is being a little short-sighted here because withholding the number of no shows serves no purpose other than to fuel the suspicion. The CEO is said to have actively reduced the number of complimentary (or linked to sponsorship deals) season tickets in circulation, he should be the very one actively releasing the information to demonstrate the results of his cull.

I agree. It seems to me we have legendary Bob's Boarders who would probably take great delight in finding out the extent of our ST no shows either in total or on average at the end of the season.

It would be very interesting to know whether the stats Carson submitted to the PO or OPTA last year match what the Club Historian has published, total and average.

[Sammy Spireite]

Over inflating 'attenadance' figures certainly can have its commercial benefits.

Was talking to freind over the weekend with knowledge of local rugby to him and he cited a recent deal where company 'X' were given a contract to manage the match day concourse and alcohol sales at a certain club on match days.

They would covr all costs then offer a % profit share basis back to the club.

The deal was signed based on historic sttendances figure which tuned out to be based on tickets sold rather than actual attendances. A few games in and it became apparent that gates were significantly lower than those published 3/4 thousand in some cases and the new management company were struggling to cover costs as they'd structured based on 14-15k customers when in reality there were more like 10/11k at most games.

[calvin plummers socks]

Surely the only important figure is how many tickets sold.
There's a myriad of reasons why they then may not attend.
Look at sold out concerts or theatres. No one is interested in why they don't turn up- just that that seat has been sold?

Surely the other way around with under reported attendances like the old Barnet or Darren Brown days is the bad bit?

[Blue5]

calvin plummers socks, on 21 August 2019 - 01:07 PM, said:

Surely the other way around with under reported attendances like the old Barnet or Darren Brown days is the bad bit?

Depending on the reason, over reporting can be as equally damaging.

[calvin plummers socks]

How and why?
No club is going to give an attendance higher than ticket sales

[Blue5]

calvin plummers socks, on 22 August 2019 - 06:56 AM, said:

How and why?
No club is going to give an attendance higher than ticket sales

Read any detailed paper that focuses on financial abuse involving sporting organisations and over reporting / inflating ticket sales will be covered very early on.