[60s 70s Spireite]

jonnythespireite, on 20 August 2014 - 08:51 PM, said:

I don't give a monkeys if you agree or not. Let's start taking penalties from the right or left of the penalty area then and see how many get scored compared to straight down the middle.

Are you sure it was hit harder than a penalty? Did you have the speed camera on it? Just your opinion of course. I think the general consensus is that despite it being a good strike Lee should probably have done better.

Speed yes, physics tells you it will have gone past Tommy faster than a penalty, a dead ball has to accelerate from 0 mph. Consensus? Doesn't seem so does it?

[TahnDuck]

I don't think they are digs at Doyle, its all true. He missed a sitter and had a poor game, therefore should have been subbed. Its not the fact he didn't score, it was more the fact he didn't even hit the target. When he was moved out wide, I forgot he was playing! I only remembered when I saw him walk off at full time!

A lack of striker could prove costly this season, we had so much possession, so many crosses fired into the box from both open play and corners but nobody on the end to nod them in.

But onwards and upwards, a great performance and we deserved at least a point.

COYB

[jonnythespireite]

60s 70s Spireite, on 20 August 2014 - 09:04 PM, said:

Speed yes, physics tells you it will have gone past Tommy faster than a penalty, a dead ball has to accelerate from 0 mph. Consensus? Doesn't seem so does it?

Well I don't exactly see people queueing up to subscribe to your view Pythagoras. In terms of consensus I was referring to views of people at the game and not necessarily the distorted views on here. This is a futile discussion anyway as it was a goal. We lost. We disagree.

[60s 70s Spireite]

jonnythespireite, on 20 August 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:

Well I don't exactly see people queueing up to subscribe to your view Pythagoras. In terms of consensus I was referring to views of people at the game and not necessarily the distorted views on here. This is a futile discussion anyway as it was a goal. We lost. We disagree.

Its Newton's law, not Pythagoras. Yes, I agree. We disagree.

[Spireite-Karl]

Goku, on 20 August 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:

I didn't attribute any blame to Tommy at the time and don't now. Afobe struck it with some rate venom, don't think there was anything he could do.

Too big a gap for me at his near stick. If there hadn't have been he would have got something on it. Yes it was hit with real venom, but it could then easily have struck him. He get's something on it and then it's 50/50 whether it goes in or not. Slightly out of position for me; but as said the main blame doesn't lie with Tommy at all (he's only the last man, and two or three town players were to blame for letting him go that far. It becomes tricky to defend when a player running with that speed enters the box, so my main blame goes to the town player that didn't make the challenge on the edge of the box before he entered (I'm not sure who that was??). A free-kick and a booking would have done.

[Spireite-Karl]

TahnDuck, on 20 August 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:

I don't think they are digs at Doyle, its all true. He missed a sitter and had a poor game, therefore should have been subbed. Its not the fact he didn't score, it was more the fact he didn't even hit the target. When he was moved out wide, I forgot he was playing! I only remembered when I saw him walk off at full time!

A lack of striker could prove costly this season, we had so much possession, so many crosses fired into the box from both open play and corners but nobody on the end to nod them in.

But onwards and upwards, a great performance and we deserved at least a point.

COYB

That depends on what type of striker you have and how good they are with their head and having the knack at being in the right position; not as straight forwards as you make out. For instance we could sign our ex players and great goal scorers Jamie Ward and Nozza and they wouldn't have thrived on that service (they'd have probably drawn a blank also), so it's not as simple as signing a goal scorer like most seem to think. The balls in would have suited Mossy, but then he's not going to do all the leg/ team work that Doyle does for the team. Our midfield need to score more as this is where the goal as, Doyle will get enough for himself, but the real goals are in midfield and they didn't threaten at all. Also credit needs to go to their defence... Looks very solid as do their tactics and whole line-up. I just hope they are more of a rarity in this league than not. Yes we battered them with football, but the stood up to it very, very well; you can't not give credit for that!

[Westbars Spireite]

azul, on 20 August 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

Can you be more explicit?

At half time I was expecting defeat because you don't normally dominate a game so much, fail to take your chances and get away with it. Nothing more

It showed the reality of the step up in class. How sides will set, how they will soak up pressure & how, crucially, with pace we can punished in a flash.

[Spireite-Karl]

Westbars Spireite, on 20 August 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

It showed the reality of the step up in class. How sides will set, how they will soak up pressure & how, crucially, with pace we can punished in a flash.

And apparently MK were a lot like us and by the sounds of things their fans are pleased they have finally found out how to do a job. Basically they always got branded as the team that picks up all the accolades wherever they go, but they don't win enough football matches in the process. That could be us this season and Cook HAS to find a way that enables us to win more than we lose; this maybe harder than some of us feel after watching how pleasing we are on the eye during the first few matches. We were superb on the eye at the beginning of last season, but that didn't last. Cook's not going to change the way he plays and nor should he, nor do I want him to, but he must find a way of getting the result. This may or may not be a problem, but I’ve got a feeling it will be.

This post has been edited by Spireite-Karl: 20 August 2014 - 10:37 PM

[azul]

Westbars Spireite, on 20 August 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

It showed the reality of the step up in class. How sides will set, how they will soak up pressure & how, crucially, with pace we can punished in a flash.

No different from last time then

Actually I didn't think MK were a very good example of what we should worry about

[Spireite-Karl]

azul, on 20 August 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

No different from last time then

Actually I didn't think MK were a very good example of what we should worry about

I did, they were solid and well organised all over the park. We mastered them with the football, but they always looked in control and kept us well at arm’s length. They even got the sucker punch and held onto it very well. Plus they can play, okay last night might not have been one of their better displays, but they did come up against a team that needed a job doing on them and they did it well. I hope we can go away and do this to a side that totally out plays us and come back with the points without them getting any real sniff at goal. Yes, much of that could have been our doing, but we can't have been that bad? Basically they cut most out at source and knew the crosses were going to be dealt with. Hard work for them, most definitely, but they had it in them; though with a bit of luck we could have had the points.

[azul]

Spireite-Karl, on 20 August 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

I did, they were solid and well organised all over the park. We mastered them with the football, but they always looked in control and kept us well at arm’s length. They even got the sucker punch and held onto it very well. Plus they can play, okay last night might not have been one of their better displays, but they did come up against a team that needed a job doing on them and they did it well. I hope we can go away and do this to a side that totally out plays us and come back with the points without them getting any real sniff at goal. Yes, much of that could have been our doing, but we can't have been that bad? Basically they cut most out at source and knew the crosses were going to be dealt with. Hard work for them, most definitely, but they had it in them; though with a bit of luck we could have had the points.

You have just described what happened to us last year on many occasions

Most of their defending was down to luck more than judgement. I would acknowledge they carry more of an attacking presence than some of those sterile visitors last year but the principle remains the same

I reckon they would lose 4 out of 5 on that balance of play, especially if their opposition had a 20 goal a year striker

[TahnDuck]

Spireite-Karl, on 20 August 2014 - 10:02 PM, said:

That depends on what type of striker you have and how good they are with their head and having the knack at being in the right position; not as straight forwards as you make out. For instance we could sign our ex players and great goal scorers Jamie Ward and Nozza and they wouldn't have thrived on that service (they'd have probably drawn a blank also), so it's not as simple as signing a goal scorer like most seem to think. The balls in would have suited Mossy, but then he's not going to do all the leg/ team work that Doyle does for the team. Our midfield need to score more as this is where the goal as, Doyle will get enough for himself, but the real goals are in midfield and they didn't threaten at all. Also credit needs to go to their defence... Looks very solid as do their tactics and whole line-up. I just hope they are more of a rarity in this league than not. Yes we battered them with football, but the stood up to it very, very well; you can't not give credit for that!

I never suggested it was simple or that all types of strikers would fit the bill. I was envious of MK dons as a striker who is big, strong and fast like Afobe would be perfect for us! Doyle puts the leg work in but his finishing just isn't good enough. I actually quite like him as a player but at the end of the day, he needs to be sticking chances away more consistently and at least hitting the target.

I also never suggested they weren't a good side defensively. They were organised and the two centre halves are class at this level. But our defence stood up very well, other than the one slip up which consequently cost us the game.

The two stand out moments from last night was our defensive switch off for their goal and Doyle failing to convert the sitter he was presented with. That was the difference between us and MK and is the fine line between being good and great in this division IMO.

[Wooden Spoon]

Westbars Spireite, on 20 August 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

It showed the reality of the step up in class. How sides will set, how they will soak up pressure & how, crucially, with pace we can punished in a flash.

As at Wembley - we had lots of play, looked good on the ball, but a little powder puff up front and fell to a more clinical side in front of goal.

Get used to it, there will be a lot of games where we look very good, and get done by the odd goal. As Cook said, you have to take your chances when your on top - the opposition will do on a good few occasions.

[Dazspire]

TahnDuck, on 20 August 2014 - 11:12 PM, said:

I never suggested it was simple or that all types of strikers would fit the bill. I was envious of MK dons as a striker who is big, strong and fast like Afobe would be perfect for us! Doyle puts the leg work in but his finishing just isn't good enough. I actually quite like him as a player but at the end of the day, he needs to be sticking chances away more consistently and at least hitting the target.

I also never suggested they weren't a good side defensively. They were organised and the two centre halves are class at this level. But our defence stood up very well, other than the one slip up which consequently cost us the game.

The two stand out moments from last night was our defensive switch off for their goal and Doyle failing to convert the sitter he was presented with. That was the difference between us and MK and is the fine line between being good and great in this division IMO.

According to their manager Afobe's finishing isn't good enough either! Converted 1 out of 6 chances with some help from our defence and Tommy's poor positioning. I bet he will hold his hands up, keepers don't like conceding on their near post.

[Spire-Power]

Dazspire, on 21 August 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

According to their manager Afobe's finishing isn't good enough either! Converted 1 out of 6 chances with some help from our defence and Tommy's poor positioning. I bet he will hold his hands up, keepers don't like conceding on their near post.

Did Afobe alone really have 6 goal scoring chances? Makes it sound like we were lucky to get away with 1-0 lol

[azul]

Spire-Power, on 21 August 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

Did Afobe alone really have 6 goal scoring chances? Makes it sound like we were lucky to get away with 1-0 lol

He also said MK could have been 2 or 3 up in the first 10 minutes on the player interview

[Wooden Spoon]

azul, on 20 August 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

If Doyle plays the majority of games he'll probably get 20 goals

doubt it unless half a dozen are penalties

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Just to clarify.

I've nowt against Doyle and reckon his tireless running is a valuable option.

But I just don't think he has the quality to turn tight games, against organised L1 outfits such as MK, in our favour.

What's more he clearly lacks physicality and struggles to win and/or hold the ball under pressure.

These aren't "digs", it's just telling the truth.

And nobody will be happier than me if he scores a hat-trick on Sat'di to rub my nose in these comments.

[martatcross]

MDCCCLXVI, on 21 August 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

Just to clarify.

I've nowt against Doyle and reckon his tireless running is a valuable option.

But I just don't think he has the quality to turn tight games, against organised L1 outfits such as MK, in our favour.

What's more he clearly lacks physicality and struggles to win and/or hold the ball under pressure.

These aren't "digs", it's just telling the truth.

And nobody will be happier than me if he scores a hat-trick on Sat'di to rub my nose in these comments.

Good job you got nowt against him Chris with the comments there I wouldn't like to read them if you did have something against him

[Spireite-Karl]

MDCCCLXVI, on 21 August 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

Just to clarify.

I've nowt against Doyle and reckon his tireless running is a valuable option.

But I just don't think he has the quality to turn tight games, against organised L1 outfits such as MK, in our favour.

What's more he clearly lacks physicality and struggles to win and/or hold the ball under pressure.

These aren't "digs", it's just telling the truth.

And nobody will be happier than me if he scores a hat-trick on Sat'di to rub my nose in these comments.

Valid points to a degree, but look at the stats (the ones that really count) and you'll find he's the only one producing the goods! The other three attacking players HAVE to weigh in with the system we play and they are not. The football they play is a sheer joy, but as far as the end product goes, they ALL need to do better.