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Rangers Takeover Falls Through

#21 User is offline   Heisenberg 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:30 PM

View PostOscar Tone, on 08 May 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

So we have financial reasons for Celtic to jump on board, the precedent of Welsh teams & an upping of the entertainment level. Not wholly convincing, but all i'm hearing in the against column are fairly wishy-washy its not fair type comments. Re clubs missing out, simples, put it to all 92 teams to vote on it & see how it stands then.


Yes that would be the fairest way. I think if the majority of the 92 clubs voted against Celtic joining the English system, it would be a sore case of chairmen/owners cutting off their nose to spite their face, either because they are worried for their own position in the league, or as Oscar has said above, they would be all petulant and xenophobic about a "non-English" side joining us (and the 2 current Welsh sides in the league, of course). They would blindly ignore the financial merits of the Hoops being in our system.
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#22 User is offline   Heisenberg 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:34 PM

View Postmr. smith, on 08 May 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

that'd be league 2 then.

its never going to happen. if rangers go bust then celtic & the spl would go into a tail spin & never recover.


League 2 would be fair enough, any lower than the "professional" pyramid I think is stupid, that's just people who don't want a Scottish club playing our teams wanting them to start over as low as is humanely possible.

I think the SPL with only Celtic would go into a tailspin, but one without them and Rangers would admittedly be a less-appealing league for sponsors etc, but it is up to the clubs, owners, players etc to bring the Motherwells and Hibs and Aberdeens up to a higher standard. The Scottish football fans don't owe those guys a living. Look at the attendances for non Old Firm games, for a top flight division in Europe they are pathetic. If the Scottish League cannot adjust to survive, then thats their own lookout. Celtic needs to do what's best for Celtic Football Club, and if Rangers go bust, the best option is to join us, anyone can see that.
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#23 Guest_Punkindonuts_*

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:40 PM

Surely they would have to start right at the very bottom just like any other old or new club that wants to play in england. Any phoenix club that rises from Portsmouth, Rotherham etc going bust would have to start at the very bottom again, so if you were going to give Celtic perferential treatment then any other club that goes bust can say you let Celtic join where ever they wanted so so can we.
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#24 User is offline   Oscar Tone 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:44 PM

View PostPunkindonuts, on 08 May 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Surely they would have to start right at the very bottom just like any other old or new club that wants to play in england. Any phoenix club that rises from Portsmouth, Rotherham etc going bust would have to start at the very bottom again, so if you were going to give Celtic perferential treatment then any other club that goes bust can say you let Celtic join where ever they wanted so so can we.


If the other 92 clubs voted in favour of a team joing at Div 2 level, be it Celtic, Fleetwood, Alfreton or anyone for that matter, what grounds would there be for not having them on board?
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#25 User is offline   Heisenberg 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:45 PM

View PostPunkindonuts, on 08 May 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Surely they would have to start right at the very bottom just like any other old or new club that wants to play in england. Any phoenix club that rises from Portsmouth, Rotherham etc going bust would have to start at the very bottom again, so if you were going to give Celtic perferential treatment then any other club that goes bust can say you let Celtic join where ever they wanted so so can we.


Depends on your definition of the "very bottom", League 2, yes fair enough, even though I personally would allow Celtic into the Championship straight off. But somewhere a couple of levels under Conference level? No way. Celtic are former European champions, multi-time Scottish league and cup winners, and have a massive worldwide fanbase and, along with Old Trafford, one of the biggest club stadiums in the UK. Insisting they start out in the Unibond Second Division or whatever it may be is, as I said earlier, just spiteful. The Hoops in the English professional system would be good for them, and good for our game in general, so why deprive ourselves of that?

Going back to the topic of Rangers, it appears that, according to the BBC, there are still three bids on the table, and the administrators are hoping a bid will be successful by the end of the season.
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#26 User is offline   Oscar Tone 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:47 PM

Shades of Mark Antony here, "I come to bury Rangers, not to praise them."

Good.
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#27 Guest_Punkindonuts_*

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:49 PM

True I suppose if it came down to a vote they could start in league 2. But luckily i cant see it happening and its go nothing to do with disliking scottish teams as a whole just Celtic and Rangers and all that religious nonsense they both stand for
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#28 User is offline   Heisenberg 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:53 PM

Another alternative instead of Celtic joining the English system could be to merge, say, the Scottish and Welsh leagues, or even join with one or both of the Irish leagues aswell to create a Celtic/Gaelic Super League. Something similar has been done in rugby, to great success.

Even so, Celtic would still be far and wide the dominant force in a Gaelic League, the likes of Total Network Solutions and Shamrock Rovers cannot compete on their level much the same way Motherwell and Aberdeen can't. That's why I'll always say, if Rangers die, the best thing for everybody would be for Celtic to join our system.
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#29 User is offline   Rodney's Moustache 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:05 PM

View PostOscar Tone, on 08 May 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

The bigger they come, the harder they fall. Does this mean we stay in Div 1 now?

No Brechin City take our place
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#30 User is offline   newboldsteve 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:08 PM

View PostHeisenberg, on 08 May 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

Another alternative instead of Celtic joining the English system could be to merge, say, the Scottish and Welsh leagues, or even join with one or both of the Irish leagues aswell to create a Celtic/Gaelic Super League. Something similar has been done in rugby, to great success.

Even so, Celtic would still be far and wide the dominant force in a Gaelic League, the likes of Total Network Solutions and Shamrock Rovers cannot compete on their level much the same way Motherwell and Aberdeen can't. That's why I'll always say, if Rangers die, the best thing for everybody would be for Celtic to join our system.



rangers wont die even if it went under someone would start them off again and be back in spl within 5 years
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#31 User is offline   Heisenberg 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:13 PM

View Postnewboldsteve, on 08 May 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

rangers wont die even if it went under someone would start them off again and be back in spl within 5 years


Theoretically yes. But how much would the SPL suffer in those five years while Celtic are twiddling their thumbs waiting for the Old Firm rivalry to restart?
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#32 User is offline   metallilad 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:13 PM

This might be a bit thick of me but how would Rangers going out of business hit Celtic?
After all it's only two home games per season isn't it?
Life goes on. Whatever happens.
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#33 User is offline   Wooden Spoon 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:43 PM

View PostHeisenberg, on 08 May 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

:D

Actually though, if Rangers go bust and a new company can't be formed, does anyone think this may prompt Celtic into again considering entry into the English leagues? Unlikely, admittedly, but I was reading about this only a few days ago and apparantly if Celtic were to apply to join the Football League, it'd most likely be League 1 (or even League 2) where they would have to start. That could have negative consequences for a League 2 club chasing promotion, though hopefully by that time we'd be comfortably back in L1 anyway.

Can you imagine though, Chesterfield vs Celtic, what a dream encounter! I don't doubt many Hoops fans would right now cringe at the idea of away day journies to Crawley and Scunthorpe, but if Rangers go bust, what are the options? A Scottish duopoly becomes a monopoly, with it taking years for the likes of Hearts, Dundee United, Aberdeen and Hibs to get to Celtic's level. The SPL would surely suffer, and the knock-on effect would probably mean Celtic would ultimately suffer at the box office too. I say invite Celtic into the Football League, then basically consider the SPL is starting from Year Zero, with "brand new" teams competing for the title.


more likely celtic dropping to thier level - without the old firm there would be zero interest from TV companies and the income/standard would fall lower and lower.

Do we really want to see Celtic in the english leaqgue though? Me personally no I dont.

This post has been edited by necronomicon ex mortis: 08 May 2012 - 06:43 PM

A new hope.
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#34 User is offline   Wooden Spoon 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:45 PM

View PostHeisenberg, on 08 May 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

The Hoops in the English professional system would be good for them, and good for our game in general, so why deprive ourselves of that?



How so?
A new hope.
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#35 User is offline   Frank Thacker 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:55 PM

View PostOscar Tone, on 08 May 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

If the other 92 clubs voted in favour of a team joing at Div 2 level, be it Celtic, Fleetwood, Alfreton or anyone for that matter, what grounds would there be for not having them on board?

Right now no-one is voted in - the places are earned, on merit. Expect solicitors to become rich if any attempt is made to circumvent that process.

Since it is all about money now, and sod all to do with deserving, then if Celtic want to join at a particular level, they should have to make a money offer to the club whose place they want to take. Acceptance of the offer conditional on a vote of that club's fans. Even then, fitting a club into the middle of the pyramid has repercussions for decent, honest clubs lower down, who may be denied promotion or unjustly relegated to make the numbers work. So any club affected in this way should be financially compensated by Celtic, too.
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#36 User is offline   azul 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:07 PM

View PostOscar Tone, on 08 May 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

There was some talk of Celtic coming in at League 2 level. Precedents have been set by the presence of Welsh teams in the league. I would not have a problem with it & i think most League clubs would welcome the revenue.

I think it would be fair to say it would be the premiership in three seasons so we wouldn't see very much off them
Accentuate th Positive, eliminate the negative
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#37 User is offline   mr. smith 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:12 PM

View Postazul, on 08 May 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

I think it would be fair to say it would be the premiership in three seasons so we wouldn't see very much off them


youve not seen much scottish football lately then. celtic would be far from certain of going through the championship at the first couple of times of asking.
scottish club football just isnt very good.
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#38 User is offline   Westbars Spireite 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:22 PM

Celtic should be allowed in but only at the same level any 'new' club eg AFC Wimbledon did. If they don't like it, tough.

View Postmr. smith, on 08 May 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

youve not seen much scottish football lately then. celtic would be far from certain of going through the championship at the first couple of times of asking.
scottish club football just isnt very good.


Celtic are about as good as Derby I'd say.
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#39 User is offline   Jud 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:28 PM

View PostWestbars Spireite, on 08 May 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

Celtic should be allowed in but only at the same level any 'new' club eg AFC Wimbledon did. If they don't like it, tough.



Celtic are about as good as Derby I'd say.

Certainly no better WS. I'd be surprised if Celtic, as they are now made the Championship play-offs. What this says about the teams in the Scottish top flight who are situated outside of Glasgow speaks for itself. My pa had the joy of seeing Hibs v Celtic at the start of the season and, from his report, teams like Hibs would be struggling to match us these days.
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#40 User is offline   mr. smith 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:29 PM

View PostWestbars Spireite, on 08 May 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

Celtic should be allowed in but only at the same level any 'new' club eg AFC Wimbledon did. If they don't like it, tough.



Celtic are about as good as Derby I'd say.


think youre being harsh on derby.
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