[Cartman]

dtp, on 25 November 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

Don't disagree with you about playing the best two centre backs we have but I always feel a right-footed player kicks more naturally with his right foot and a left-footed player with his left foot. Now, when it comes to heading a ball it makes no difference. However, to me, if a low cross comes in from the left-hand side of our defence towards the first central defender the first foot it comes to is his left one and if he is left-footed he will naturally play it away. But, if he is right-footed he will naturally let the ball pass his left side to get it on his right foot or turn his body left to meet it with his right foot - in the first instance it takes longer to clear it and in the second one he is facing the wrong direction.

Obviously, it's a matter of opinion and there have been successful partnership of two right-footers playing together but, in my opinion, the most comfortable player in recent years to play the left-sided centre back role for us was Liam Cooper and we have never replaced him.

he was also one of the best centre backs to play for us in recent years, nowt to do with his preferred foot - would have been just as good on the right side of any pairing if we had 2 left footed players in defense

left sided / right sided centre backs is made up nonsense and was never talked about up until a few years ago

[dtp]

Goku, on 25 November 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

I think if you had a spare slot in the left CB position and you'd got a right footed CB and a left footed CB of the exact same ability you'd probably play the left footed one in that vacant position but there really isn't enough in it to warrant a new loan signing.

For me, Wood and Evatt are clones, or near enough to not play them together. Both big strong stoppers who'll win their majority of aerial battles but neither can pick passes and both are pretty slow.

Agree with you Goku on your first sentence and certainly Wood has not pulled up any trees (sorry).

We do have defensive issues though, with or without, Wood.

Chris has asked the question as to who were the centre back partnership last season - we started with Evatt & Cooper, then there were mixtures of Hird & Evatt, Raglan & Hird, and Raglan & Evatt. But even though we had little pace when Hird & Evatt playing together we had an excellent pacy RB and for a fair number of games Clucas and Talbot at LB both of whom seemed more in favour than Jones.

Obviously it is a question of getting the whole back four performing as a solid unit so perhaps we should concentrate on that - so, with what we have got I would go with Talbot, Raglan, Evatt & Jones and, as such, possibly the first two positions to address are the full backs with, at some stage, thoughts be given to Evo's ultimate replacement at LCB.

Now, if you were manager are you on the look out for a left footer or a right footer?

[Goku]

Cartman, on 25 November 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

left sided / right sided centre backs is made up nonsense and was never talked about up until a few years ago

Not sure about that. I think a lot of top level managers prefer having one of each in their defence. Sometimes they don't have the personnel but I think if you asked them if they'd prefer it, the majority would say yes.

[dim view]

MDCCCLXVI, on 25 November 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

Just remind me, Dave; which CB partnership guided us to the L1 Play Offs last season?

This just reinforces my point that CH isn't the biggest problem. Who do you want reinstating, Charlie or Hirdy?. Wood brings an incremental improvement, but hardly discernable until midfield figures out how to stop people running at the back 4.

[Cartman]

Goku, on 25 November 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

Not sure about that. I think a lot of top level managers prefer having one of each in their defence. Sometimes they don't have the personnel but I think if you asked them if they'd prefer it, the majority would say yes.

it is a very new development and was never mentioned years ago

why does no one go on about having left sided central midfielders, or left sided centre forwards?

nonsense

[Goku]

Cartman, on 25 November 2015 - 09:13 PM, said:

it is a very new development and was never mentioned years ago

why does no one go on about having left sided central midfielders, or left sided centre forwards?

nonsense

Are you denying the possible validity of something just because it's new? That's what it seems like from what you're saying. If that was the case we'd still be playing 2-3-5 and defenders would be able to pass it back to the keeper's hands whenever they were under pressure.

It's most likely due to the individual's player's comfort levels. It's pretty certain that a rightie will feel more comfortable at RCB and a leftie will feel more comfortable at LCB. Like I say, it's not enough to warrant a new loan signing (imo) but I don't see why you're so vehemently against the idea.

http://bleacherrepor...central-defence - maybe worth a read (though I'm sure it'll be nonsense ).

[Cartman]

Goku, on 25 November 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

Are you denying the possible validity of something just because it's new? That's what it seems like from what you're saying. If that was the case we'd still be playing 2-3-5 and defenders would be able to pass it back to the keeper's hands whenever they were under pressure.

It's most likely due to the individual's player's comfort levels. It's pretty certain that a rightie will feel more comfortable at RCB and a leftie will feel more comfortable at LCB. Like I say, it's not enough to warrant a new loan signing (imo) but I don't see why you're so vehemently against the idea.

http://bleacherrepor...central-defence - maybe worth a read (though I'm sure it'll be nonsense ).

I just want an argument!

my main point is that it is not the be all and end all and I'd rather have the best 2 central defenders playing as centre backs - which is how it always used to be and always should be

there is no such thing as a left sided centre back - well there shouldn't be anyway, if a centre back can't play either side then he shouldn't be a centre
back

And that link is nonsense written for football nerds! They cite 3 examples of left/right combinations - far more successful combinations over the years will have been both right footed due to the rarity of left footed players

This post has been edited by Cartman: 25 November 2015 - 09:22 PM

[Westbars Spireite]

Goku, on 25 November 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

I think if you had a spare slot in the left CB position and you'd got a right footed CB and a left footed CB of the exact same ability you'd probably play the left footed one in that vacant position but there really isn't enough in it to warrant a new loan signing.

For me, Wood and Evatt are clones, or near enough to not play them together. Both big strong stoppers who'll win their majority of aerial battles but neither can pick passes and both are pretty slow.

I'm with you. On a marginal decision you'd probably go that way for balance. The signing of Wood given the issues at RB and wide in the middle of the pitch though is a puzzler as I said at the time and reiterated as soon as I'd seen him play.

This post has been edited by Westbars Spireite: 25 November 2015 - 09:25 PM

[Mr_Pleasant]

dim view, on 25 November 2015 - 09:11 PM, said:

This just reinforces my point that CH isn't the biggest problem. Who do you want reinstating, Charlie or Hirdy?. Wood brings an incremental improvement, but hardly discernable until midfield figures out how to stop people running at the back 4.

This will probably be scoffed at, because milk sours quicker than he can run, but Ritchie Humphreys is still a good, clever player. Drop him in just in front of the back four and behind the midfield, work on the basis that he doesn't need to cover a lot of ground, just do a lot of tidying up. Play 4-1-4-1.

[Goku]

Cartman, on 25 November 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

I just want an argument!

my main point is that it is not the be all and end all and I'd rather have the best 2 central defenders playing as centre backs - which is how it always used to be and always should be

there is no such thing as a left sided centre back - well there shouldn't be anyway, if a centre back can't play either side then he shouldn't be a centre
back

And that link is nonsense written for football nerds! They cite 3 examples of left/right combinations - far more successful combinations over the years will have been both right footed due to the rarity of left footed players

I'm sure a CB would play either side without complaint, it's just the fine margins you see at the top level, probably not so much at this level as you can't be so picky over players. I'm sure if you spoke to the coaches/performance analysts at the top clubs they'd be able to bore you to death on how a left-footed CB playing on his favoured left side will react more confidently to a through ball put through on his left side blah blah blah. It's not something I care enough about to really argue.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dim view, on 25 November 2015 - 09:11 PM, said:

This just reinforces my point that CH isn't the biggest problem. Who do you want reinstating, Charlie or Hirdy?. Wood brings an incremental improvement, but hardly discernable until midfield figures out how to stop people running at the back 4.

My point was the Hird/Evatt/occasionally Raglan combo aren't to blame for us going from play off contenders to losing more than fifty percent of our games.

[Zeus]

Cooky was a firm believer in trying to get a balanced team in terms of left footers on the left side and right footers on the right side. It happened to work with Cooper & Evatt and aside from Cooper being an exceptional defender for us, it did help the team with the style of passing play we adopted. It definitely did not work when he made a loan signing and decided to drop Jimmy Ryan for Oscar Gobern in midfield. Going further back, I think perhaps Lee Richardson was into it with the signings of Page & Austin, but those names make me shudder so I'll say no more.

We all ought to be agreed it is desirable, but not at the expense of a right footed player who is clearly better. And there's no way we should have two very good players of our own below this Rotherham agent in the pecking order - baffling decision to sign him.

[dim view]

Zeus, on 26 November 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

We all ought to be agreed it is desirable, but not at the expense of a right footed player who is clearly better. And there's no way we should have two very good players of our own below this Rotherham agent in the pecking order - baffling decision to sign him.

yes there is. Your two 'very good players' haven't been very good.

[SpireiteFitzy]

Cartman, on 25 November 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

all this left sided, right sided centre back nonsense

relatively new thing based on tripe in the media

having 2 right footed centre backs never used to be an issue and shouldn't be an issue if they are both good defenders

Mark Williams and Sean Dyche were both right footed
Ian Breckin and Steve Blatherwick were both right footed
Steve Bruce and Gary Pallister were both right footed
Tony Adams and Steve Bould were both right footed
and so on and so on

playing a centre back just cos he happens to kick with his left foot is ridiculous, as the current mess of a defense with Wood in it is showing

Get the 2 best defenders in at centre back, it does not matter 1 little bit what foot they favour!

Tell that to JonB. Always delegating the lcb role to me on sundays. Nowt worse than trying to clear through balls and bobbling balls on a slanted pitch with your weaker foot lol.

In seriousness though I agree. Irrelevant which foot someone uses as long as they feel comfortable enough playing there. Raglan, Hird, and Evatt all seemed to work it well between them last season.

[Goku]

dim view, on 26 November 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

yes there is. Your two 'very good players' haven't been very good.

Defending at CB isn't easy when you've got an army of opposition players running at you because of your tactically inept manager playing Morsy and [another] in CM.

[Bobby Darling]

h again, on 25 November 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

Remind me which two defensive midfielders broke up attacks in front of them.

You have still not told me why you think putting Ryan in the current team would make it "near certainties for promotion." Have you changed your mind after Tuesday night?

[Cartman]

SpireiteFitzy, on 26 November 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

Tell that to JonB. Always delegating the lcb role to me on sundays. Nowt worse than trying to clear through balls and bobbling balls on a slanted pitch with your weaker foot lol.

In seriousness though I agree. Irrelevant which foot someone uses as long as they feel comfortable enough playing there. Raglan, Hird, and Evatt all seemed to work it well between them last season.

his only use is throw ins!

[Wooden Spoon]

We need wide midfielders who are not going to neglect the defensive duties, so the full backs are not left isolated.

CB is, IMO, the least of our problems. Its the Midfield. CM and wide. Ryan and Morsy combo needs no explaination. Clucas was excellent at it, and Roberts did his share of tracking back as well as being the player who would hold the ball to relieve pressure.. We were also lucky to have a top class RB as well.

Its not down to losing just 1 CM. The whole side has lost its balance, cohesion and work ethic off the ball.

[h again]

Bobby Darling, on 26 November 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

You have still not told me why you think putting Ryan in the current team would make it "near certainties for promotion." Have you changed your mind after Tuesday night?

No. That was another game that cried out for a quality partner for Morsy, and it was a shining example of what happens when we haven't got one.. Defence exposed, attack not supplied.

[Bobby Darling]

h again, on 26 November 2015 - 07:09 PM, said:

No. That was another game that cried out for a quality partner for Morsy, and it was a shining example of what happens when we haven't got one.. Defence exposed, attack not supplied.

Don't evade the question! Do you still think that this team would be promoted if we added Ryan to it?