[BlueDay]

dtp, on 25 November 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

From what he said at the AGM it was clear that he was not happy with our defence and he thinks it could take a little time to sort it out - I agree with him, I don't think our defence has been brilliant since we moved to the Proact, but I would argue John Duncan would sort it out overnight by comparison to his efforts.

At the outset of his reign it was obvious that RB was going to be a problem, Tendayi was going to leave, Drew was nowhere near fit, Hird will never be a RB, we'd got no up and coming youngster to take a chance on etc. So, eventually, what dies he do - he signs a RB who needs weeks of rehabilitation before being anywhere near fit enough to play but then puts him into central midfield. On top of which he signs a young midfielder, puts him in at RB where he fails and loses any confidence he might have had. Meanwhile, he waits for Drew to get back to 60% of what he was before playing him and then dropping him. Wouldn't it have been easier to sign a fit and proper RB?

We have 3 right-sided CB's, an up and coming young one, a 34 year old, and one lacking in height. So he does he extend all their contracts? I believe the answer was "yes" but "why" - why not wait and assess them as surely, at most, we only need 2 of them going forward.

Then, we don't have a natural left-sided CB so he has to play an ageing right-footer there who actually did better than the ageing left-footer he has recently loaned. But why did he not sign a decent left-footed CB before the season started.

Then, we have Jones at LB - good going forward but poor defensively. Possibly would be better employed on the left side of midfield- I don't know. In fairness to Dan he looks like he is enjoying this season better than last but that should not detract from his defensive weaknesses nor the fact that we have, absolutely, no other left back on the books to put pressure on him and his position.

One could say that Tommy Lee should come into the defensive equation but I have seen far worse keepers behind defences perform much better than our unit.

Basically, I agree with Saunders in that our defence does need sorting but I don't agree with how he is doing it.

If Herd is to be any good to us, in fact if he is any good, he should be at RB. Evatt or Raglan at RCB. We need a LCB better than what Woods appears to be and definitely with a bit more pace, then we at least need a decent LB to put pressure on Jones or, in fact, give us the option of moving him further forward and thus making us more solid on that side.

On top of Saunders efforts in failing to sort out the defence he will be faced with even more problems in January to sort out midfield - not as if that job doesn't need doing now!!!

I like this analysis - take a green un!

[BlueDay]

Bottom Line is that the sum of the parts should be doing much better than what they are.

[dim view]

MDCCCLXVI, on 24 November 2015 - 10:36 PM, said:

Then how much notice does Saunders actually take of the youth side? Is it true they've been separated from the first team to train at Langer Lane - costing a four figure sum per month? What message does that send to the likes of the promising Maguire? Has there been any attempt whatsoever to integrate our own products into the first team squad?

I'm certainly not aware of any.

One question I should have asked at the AGM is 'how much does it cost in total to run the club below the level of the reserves?'. It seems to me pertinent to discuss whether running an Academy could be shelved until after the debt has been cleared. We have a Director of Recruitment who, in my opinion, is perfectly capable of finding us 19 year olds from non league/other academies/abroad that are better than 'owt coming from our Academy.

Let's look a Maguire as an example. A very good player who might have made his way into top non league standard and whom we could easily have picked up from there.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 25 November 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

From what he said at the AGM it was clear that he was not happy with our defence and he thinks it could take a little time to sort it out - I agree with him, I don't think our defence has been brilliant since we moved to the Proact, but I would argue John Duncan would sort it out overnight by comparison to his efforts.

At the outset of his reign it was obvious that RB was going to be a problem, Tendayi was going to leave, Drew was nowhere near fit, Hird will never be a RB, we'd got no up and coming youngster to take a chance on etc. So, eventually, what dies he do - he signs a RB who needs weeks of rehabilitation before being anywhere near fit enough to play but then puts him into central midfield. On top of which he signs a young midfielder, puts him in at RB where he fails and loses any confidence he might have had. Meanwhile, he waits for Drew to get back to 60% of what he was before playing him and then dropping him. Wouldn't it have been easier to sign a fit and proper RB?

We have 3 right-sided CB's, an up and coming young one, a 34 year old, and one lacking in height. So he does he extend all their contracts? I believe the answer was "yes" but "why" - why not wait and assess them as surely, at most, we only need 2 of them going forward.

Then, we don't have a natural left-sided CB so he has to play an ageing right-footer there who actually did better than the ageing left-footer he has recently loaned. But why did he not sign a decent left-footed CB before the season started.

Then, we have Jones at LB - good going forward but poor defensively. Possibly would be better employed on the left side of midfield- I don't know. In fairness to Dan he looks like he is enjoying this season better than last but that should not detract from his defensive weaknesses nor the fact that we have, absolutely, no other left back on the books to put pressure on him and his position.

One could say that Tommy Lee should come into the defensive equation but I have seen far worse keepers behind defences perform much better than our unit.

Basically, I agree with Saunders in that our defence does need sorting but I don't agree with how he is doing it.

If Herd is to be any good to us, in fact if he is any good, he should be at RB. Evatt or Raglan at RCB. We need a LCB better than what Woods appears to be and definitely with a bit more pace, then we at least need a decent LB to put pressure on Jones or, in fact, give us the option of moving him further forward and thus making us more solid on that side.

On top of Saunders efforts in failing to sort out the defence he will be faced with even more problems in January to sort out midfield - not as if that job doesn't need doing now!!!

Terrific analysis, 'dtp'.

As I said, Saunders may sound plausible in public, but his actions fall well short of his words.

[Mr Mercury]

MDCCCLXVI, on 25 November 2015 - 03:42 PM, said:

Terrific analysis, 'dtp'.

As I said, Saunders may sound plausible in public, but his actions fall well short of his words.

That's the thing Chris, and you can see why he's a good after dinner speaker, because he's plausible, sadly that plausibility is badly lacking on the pitch. He spoke well of Wood on Monday night, but up to yet that move has been a total disaster. We've gone from looking a more solid certain mid table finish, to shipping goals at an alarming rate and if things don't change soon deep in a relegation battle. Add to that the sidelining of either Raglan or Hird to accommodate him just looks silly.

[Spireite-Karl]

Blue95, on 24 November 2015 - 11:45 PM, said:

Its actually borderline insane.
HOW CAN HE NOT SEE THIS

What's that saying... Can't see the 'something or other' for the trees?

[Spireite-Karl]

My theory is that DA knew that DS would more than likely fail (as we all did), especially after the sell off of all but one of our star players; and his appointment was to divert all the flack from Allen's back door.

[Cartman]

all this left sided, right sided centre back nonsense

relatively new thing based on tripe in the media

having 2 right footed centre backs never used to be an issue and shouldn't be an issue if they are both good defenders

Mark Williams and Sean Dyche were both right footed
Ian Breckin and Steve Blatherwick were both right footed
Steve Bruce and Gary Pallister were both right footed
Tony Adams and Steve Bould were both right footed
and so on and so on

playing a centre back just cos he happens to kick with his left foot is ridiculous, as the current mess of a defense with Wood in it is showing

Get the 2 best defenders in at centre back, it does not matter 1 little bit what foot they favour!

[h again]

dtp, on 25 November 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

From what he said at the AGM it was clear that he was not happy with our defence and he thinks it could take a little time to sort it out - I agree with him, I don't think our defence has been brilliant since we moved to the Proact, but I would argue John Duncan would sort it out overnight by comparison to his efforts.

At the outset of his reign it was obvious that RB was going to be a problem, Tendayi was going to leave, Drew was nowhere near fit, Hird will never be a RB, we'd got no up and coming youngster to take a chance on etc. So, eventually, what dies he do - he signs a RB who needs weeks of rehabilitation before being anywhere near fit enough to play but then puts him into central midfield. On top of which he signs a young midfielder, puts him in at RB where he fails and loses any confidence he might have had. Meanwhile, he waits for Drew to get back to 60% of what he was before playing him and then dropping him. Wouldn't it have been easier to sign a fit and proper RB?

We have 3 right-sided CB's, an up and coming young one, a 34 year old, and one lacking in height. So he does he extend all their contracts? I believe the answer was "yes" but "why" - why not wait and assess them as surely, at most, we only need 2 of them going forward.

Then, we don't have a natural left-sided CB so he has to play an ageing right-footer there who actually did better than the ageing left-footer he has recently loaned. But why did he not sign a decent left-footed CB before the season started.

Then, we have Jones at LB - good going forward but poor defensively. Possibly would be better employed on the left side of midfield- I don't know. In fairness to Dan he looks like he is enjoying this season better than last but that should not detract from his defensive weaknesses nor the fact that we have, absolutely, no other left back on the books to put pressure on him and his position.

One could say that Tommy Lee should come into the defensive equation but I have seen far worse keepers behind defences perform much better than our unit.

Basically, I agree with Saunders in that our defence does need sorting but I don't agree with how he is doing it.

If Herd is to be any good to us, in fact if he is any good, he should be at RB. Evatt or Raglan at RCB. We need a LCB better than what Woods appears to be and definitely with a bit more pace, then we at least need a decent LB to put pressure on Jones or, in fact, give us the option of moving him further forward and thus making us more solid on that side.

On top of Saunders efforts in failing to sort out the defence he will be faced with even more problems in January to sort out midfield - not as if that job doesn't need doing now!!!

The relief - to read a post that attempts a bit of decent analysis instead of just whingeing.

The defence is last seasons - or was until Wood came - but without two first class defensive midfielders in front of them - and it shows. That's where he should be starting. If he wants to strengthen the defence behind what we have now he'll need three more decent players - preferably big, fast ones. That should put a dent in the budget.

[60s 70s Spireite]

Cartman, on 25 November 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

all this left sided, right sided centre back nonsense

relatively new thing based on tripe in the media

having 2 right footed centre backs never used to be an issue and shouldn't be an issue if they are both good defenders

Mark Williams and Sean Dyche were both right footed
Ian Breckin and Steve Blatherwick were both right footed
Steve Bruce and Gary Pallister were both right footed
Tony Adams and Steve Bould were both right footed
and so on and so on

playing a centre back just cos he happens to kick with his left foot is ridiculous, as the current mess of a defense with Wood in it is showing

Get the 2 best defenders in at centre back, it does not matter 1 little bit what foot they favour!

The signing of Wood is the strangest and worst of all the misfits we have taken on. In addition to the left footed business, we are told it's because he can 'talk'. What?! We have three CHs capable of playing at this level and two at least have plenty of experience of 'talking', indeed they both have given an excellent account of themselves on the radio when they have been injured or suspended. Surely Evatt hasn't played all the games he has played without being able to organise a defence.

We need experienced younger high energy players at full back and midfield. No more players on their way down, thanks.

[Goku]

The whole "Wood bringing on Raglan" spiel is farcical, surely. It's just a weak excuse in an attempt to justify a poorly made signing. Can't Evatt bring him on a bit? Or the coaching staff?

[Cartman]

60s 70s Spireite, on 25 November 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:

The signing of Wood is the strangest and worst of all the misfits we have taken on. In addition to the left footed business, we are told it's because he can 'talk'. What?! We have three CHs capable of playing at this level and two at least have plenty of experience of 'talking', indeed they both have given an excellent account of themselves on the radio when they have been injured or suspended. Surely Evatt hasn't played all the games he has played without being able to organise a defence.

We need experienced younger high energy players at full back and midfield. No more players on their way down, thanks.

Goku, on 25 November 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

The whole "Wood bringing on Raglan" spiel is farcical, surely. It's just a weak excuse in an attempt to justify a poorly made signing. Can't Evatt bring him on a bit? Or the coaching staff?

agree with both of you

complete nonsense all of it

Raglan and Evatt is probably our best defensive pairing, Hird plays if Raglan can't, Wood plays if Evatt can't

[dim view]

60s 70s Spireite, on 25 November 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:

The signing of Wood is the strangest and worst of all the misfits we have taken on. In addition to the left footed business, we are told it's because he can 'talk'. What?! We have three CHs capable of playing at this level and two at least have plenty of experience of 'talking', indeed they both have given an excellent account of themselves on the radio when they have been injured or suspended. Surely Evatt hasn't played all the games he has played without being able to organise a defence.

We need experienced younger high energy players at full back and midfield. No more players on their way down, thanks.

My missus might use the same simplistic logic. We leak goals as much with Wood playing as we did without him playing, ergo he can be no better than the players he has replaced. This after neither Hird nor Raglan deserved to stay in the team. Wood was our best defender last night.

There are two interrelated problems. The first that before Wood we had nobody near good enough to partner Evo. The second, even bigger problem, is that our midfield unit across the pitch cannot defend.

[Westbars Spireite]

Cartman, on 25 November 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

all this left sided, right sided centre back nonsense

relatively new thing based on tripe in the media

having 2 right footed centre backs never used to be an issue and shouldn't be an issue if they are both good defenders

Mark Williams and Sean Dyche were both right footed
Ian Breckin and Steve Blatherwick were both right footed
Steve Bruce and Gary Pallister were both right footed
Tony Adams and Steve Bould were both right footed
and so on and so on

playing a centre back just cos he happens to kick with his left foot is ridiculous, as the current mess of a defense with Wood in it is showing

Get the 2 best defenders in at centre back, it does not matter 1 little bit what foot they favour!

I agree. It's something I read on here plenty but I've never quite got it. Glad it's not just me.

At the absolute highest level maybe it's desirable (eg international level if you have the pick of your nation's players) but in League One I simply can't see it.

This post has been edited by Westbars Spireite: 25 November 2015 - 08:42 PM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dim view, on 25 November 2015 - 08:30 PM, said:

My missus might use the same simplistic logic. We leak goals as much with Wood playing as we did without him playing, ergo he can be no better than the players he has replaced. This after neither Hird nor Raglan deserved to stay in the team. Wood was our best defender last night.

There are two interrelated problems. The first that before Wood we had nobody near good enough to partner Evo. The second, even bigger problem, is that our midfield unit across the pitch cannot defend.

Just remind me, Dave; which CB partnership guided us to the L1 Play Offs last season?

[Goku]

Westbars Spireite, on 25 November 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

I agree. It's something I read on here plenty but I've never quite got it. Glad it's not just me.

At the absolute highest level maybe it's desirable but in League One I can't see it.

I think if you had a spare slot in the left CB position and you'd got a right footed CB and a left footed CB of the exact same ability you'd probably play the left footed one in that vacant position but there really isn't enough in it to warrant a new loan signing.

For me, Wood and Evatt are clones, or near enough to not play them together. Both big strong stoppers who'll win their majority of aerial battles but neither can pick passes and both are pretty slow.

[dtp]

Cartman, on 25 November 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

all this left sided, right sided centre back nonsense

relatively new thing based on tripe in the media

having 2 right footed centre backs never used to be an issue and shouldn't be an issue if they are both good defenders

Mark Williams and Sean Dyche were both right footed
Ian Breckin and Steve Blatherwick were both right footed
Steve Bruce and Gary Pallister were both right footed
Tony Adams and Steve Bould were both right footed
and so on and so on

playing a centre back just cos he happens to kick with his left foot is ridiculous, as the current mess of a defense with Wood in it is showing

Get the 2 best defenders in at centre back, it does not matter 1 little bit what foot they favour!

Don't disagree with you about playing the best two centre backs we have but I always feel a right-footed player kicks more naturally with his right foot and a left-footed player with his left foot. Now, when it comes to heading a ball it makes no difference. However, to me, if a low cross comes in from the left-hand side of our defence towards the first central defender the first foot it comes to is his left one and if he is left-footed he will naturally play it away. But, if he is right-footed he will naturally let the ball pass his left side to get it on his right foot or turn his body left to meet it with his right foot - in the first instance it takes longer to clear it and in the second one he is facing the wrong direction.

Obviously, it's a matter of opinion and there have been successful partnership of two right-footers playing together but, in my opinion, the most comfortable player in recent years to play the left-sided centre back role for us was Liam Cooper and we have never replaced him.

[h again]

MDCCCLXVI, on 25 November 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

Just remind me, Dave; which CB partnership guided us to the L1 Play Offs last season?

Remind me which two defensive midfielders broke up attacks in front of them.

[h again]

60s 70s Spireite, on 25 November 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:

The signing of Wood is the strangest and worst of all the misfits we have taken on. In addition to the left footed business, we are told it's because he can 'talk'. What?! We have three CHs capable of playing at this level and two at least have plenty of experience of 'talking', indeed they both have given an excellent account of themselves on the radio when they have been injured or suspended. Surely Evatt hasn't played all the games he has played without being able to organise a defence.

We need experienced younger high energy players at full back and midfield. No more players on their way down, thanks.

Bad news for Ian Evatt then. Shame, I thought he was having a good season.

[Goku]

h again, on 25 November 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

Bad news for Ian Evatt then. Shame, I thought he was having a good season.

to be fair he did say at midfield and fullback. evo is having a good season though, despite his silly pass last night.