[h again]

MDCCCLXVI, on 25 November 2015 - 07:08 PM, said:

'H-again', 8/10/15: 'Putting words you invent into somebody else's argument is the sign of a lost cause'.

Not an invention , mi duck, just a translation to help out. I don't like to see you struggle to put over your utter loathing for CFC and all who sail in her.

This post has been edited by h again: 25 November 2015 - 07:55 PM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

h again, on 25 November 2015 - 07:11 PM, said:

I know the vast majority find it irritating when I'm positive after a rotten performance, so here's something to get you reaching for the reds.
In a long thread there are only two people who've made any attempt to analyse what's going wrong. One is spireman and the other, as usual, is dim view. The rest is just blame-the-manager literary ordure, and probably the reason why so many people who used to post sense no longer appear. 5 pages of posts saying the Manager is rubbish might make you feel better, but it ain't half boring to read. What do you think he should actually DO, for heavens sake.
So last night was garbage. Football sometimes is, even under Cookie. Firstly, it wasn't garbage caused by failing to make a profit - the playing budget is way up on last year, thanks to DA.
It was garbage because despite all attempts, and the long term injury to the bloke who was signed to fill the most important position, we haven't got a midfield. Sammy is on his own and three other players aren't contributing. There is no cover for the defence, and very little creativity going forward, and that's down to Herd, Gardner and O'Shea. What we're seeing now is what the defence would have been like last season if it hadn't had Ryan and Morsy in front of it, and despite Evatt being fitter and more commanding this term.
Herd was improving but seems to have stopped, subbing him for Banks tells us all we need to know. O'Shea started the season better but has reverted to his old trouble - no end product in terms of passes or goals. Gardner has the odd flash of genius but is as likely to lose the ball in a dangerous area as find a decent pass. We could probably carry one passenger, because Sammy is still worth two players, but three is only going to have one result.
We can criticise Deano's signings pre-season, but he was left with an enormous re-building job. The serious mistake seems to be Herd, who wouldn't be playing there anyway of Martinez wasn't injured. I haven't seen enough of O'Neill to judge, though what I have seen wasn't encouraging, but he needs a few games. SEB and Novak would be fine if there was anything coming from behind them.
So, he can only hang in there and hope Herd suddenly hacks it, try O'Neill, or go for a seriously good loan signing. Crack the business of a partner for Sammy and the rest might not fall into place, but we'd certainly be a lot tougher proposition. Add another midfielder with a bit of creativity - and who can track back productively - and we'd start to go places.
Big ask - I just hope he hasn't spent all the budget yet, because I can't see much future with the present lot. Just tinkering is no longer an option. Comfortable mid-table would be a good result after losing half the team - flirting with relegation can be avoided but only with a couple of good loan signings.

Other than the supercilious posturing you're pretty much repeating what you've said on many occasions before - Jimmy Ryan is a massive miss.

And as I've said before I agree.

However it's not just as simple as that. Saunders' side lacks tempo, purpose, direction and cohesion - infact everything we came to expect under Cook, win, lose or draw. We not only don't press the ball but players actually sit-off, which allows opponents to build momentum and confidence. Then when we do gain the ball our players are far too isolated, meaning passes go longer which in turn means they're more difficult to control and more easy to intercept. Furthermore where we used to have a mobile front four holding possession high up the pitch, forcing sides onto the back foot and alleviating pressure on our defence, we now have flat-footed plodders. Yeah E-B has scored a reasonable amount but he's what we used to call a 'goal-hanger', a striker who may enjoy regular goal bonuses yet offers little else to the team as a whole. Is it any wonder O'Shea is struggling to supply passes? That he - pretty much our only creative outlet - is being so comfortably marked out of games?

The whole approach is lacklustre, uncoordinated and witless.

As for the re-building job the more Saunders sympathetic speak of, let's be clear exactly what it was: replacing four players. Yes they were key players, but he had ample time and money - you seem happy to accept the Club's word as gospel the rest of the time so let's take the increased budget line at face value - to recruit something approaching like-for-like. He hasn't, infact even Saunders himself has been forced to sideline some of those to whom he handed deals whilst the others have been proven increasingly inadequate.

So we're left with a manager employing bewildering tactics who's squandered more than sufficient funding on sub-standard players.

As his CV, those fans of former clubs you scorned, and of course folk on here you dismissively described as 'wrist-slitters' warned he'd do all along.

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 25 November 2015 - 08:03 PM

[h again]

dtp, on 25 November 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

You are right a few short months ago we lost 4 games out of 4 - February 2915.

I'm not sticking up for anybody, manager or players, but I do think the latter need to take a good look at themselves.

I have recently watched the lowlights of last nights game - why, oh why, do defenders like Hird at RB insist on playing sloppy balls into the middle of our defence, so called passes which just beg to be intercepted, and this after his sloppy header into the middle of our penalty area gave Port Vale a goal only the match previously, then he decides to vacate the RB position leaving their left wing vacant for their player to lay on the second goal. On't other side we've got Jones who managed to give a penalty away and get us reduced to 10 men recently at 0-0 this time gives away a needless hand-ball for another penalty (surprised he didn't get booked by the way) again at 0-0. Then back to the sloppy passing inside again by the very experienced Evatt to create their third goal.

Now, up front we didn't test their goal-keeper once yet we had some good chances, Gardner couldn't force the keeper to make a save with an excellent chance early on, O'Shea dribbled all the way into the six yard box until he ran out of shooting options so never got a shot away, and SEB with several efforts seemed eager to prove his shocking miss at Port Vale was no fluke.

Yes, our football might be woeful, but, eh, there are times when you simply have to acknowledge that in the words of the infamous Peter Allis when describing his son-in-law "could have done better" ring very true for the performances of the majority of our players.

Saunders has said that if they continue to not do what he wants them to do then they will lose their places. Well if he has told them to do what they are doing then fair enough Dean it's all your fault but if they are not playing to your instructions I reckon there should be a good number of changes on Saturday - I'd start with 4 different defenders say Raglan and 3 new faces so you had better be busy on loan deadline day.

The defence hardly came under pressure last season, apart from dead-ball situations at which we were dire. Now they're open to attack and teams are targeting them as individuals. Problem for the Manager, 'cos the players aren't coping it seems. His problem is that he's got very few options, and it only needs one weak link to open the whole lot up again.

[Goku]

MDCCCLXVI, on 25 November 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

Durthermore where we used to have a mobile front four holding possession high up the pitch, forcing sides onto the back foot and alleviating pressure on our defence, we now have flat-footed plodders. Yeah E-B has scored a reasonable amount but he's what we used to call a 'goal-hanger', a striker who may enjoy regular goal bonuses yet offers little else o the team as a whole. Is it any wonder O'Shea is struggling to supply passes? That he - pretty much our only creative outlet - is being so comfortably marked out of games?

The whole approach is lacklustre, uncoordinated and witless.

Good post but this is a solid point. Strikers need to be able to do more than tap in from 6 yards nowadays - look at Doyle for example, someone who would hassle the opposition defenders, make diagonal runs off the ball at a decent pace.. stuff like that. SEB runs like me - laboured and flat footed. Novak is slow too - he's a grafter, but he's slow.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

NOKIN, on 25 November 2015 - 07:45 PM, said:

You've got to admit it is a little bit funny

An old man hiding behind his keyboard spitting insults and accusations?

Proving himself a 'hypocrite-again' (d'y'see what I did there)?

I'd say pitiful is a far more accurate description, Mark.

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 25 November 2015 - 08:24 PM

[ELTON 2020]

dtp, on 25 November 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

You are right a few short months ago we lost 4 games out of 4 - February 2915.

I'm not sticking up for anybody, manager or players, but I do think the latter need to take a good look at themselves.

I have recently watched the lowlights of last nights game - why, oh why, do defenders like Hird at RB insist on playing sloppy balls into the middle of our defence, so called passes which just beg to be intercepted, and this after his sloppy header into the middle of our penalty area gave Port Vale a goal only the match previously, then he decides to vacate the RB position leaving their left wing vacant for their player to lay on the second goal. On't other side we've got Jones who managed to give a penalty away and get us reduced to 10 men recently at 0-0 this time gives away a needless hand-ball for another penalty (surprised he didn't get booked by the way) again at 0-0. Then back to the sloppy passing inside again by the very experienced Evatt to create their third goal.

Now, up front we didn't test their goal-keeper once yet we had some good chances, Gardner couldn't force the keeper to make a save with an excellent chance early on, O'Shea dribbled all the way into the six yard box until he ran out of shooting options so never got a shot away, and SEB with several efforts seemed eager to prove his shocking miss at Port Vale was no fluke.

Yes, our football might be woeful, but, eh, there are times when you simply have to acknowledge that in the words of the infamous Peter Allis when describing his son-in-law "could have done better" ring very true for the performances of the majority of our players.

Saunders has said that if they continue to not do what he wants them to do then they will lose their places. Well if he has told them to do what they are doing then fair enough Dean it's all your fault but if they are not playing to your instructions I reckon there should be a good number of changes on Saturday - I'd start with 4 different defenders say Raglan and 3 new faces so you had better be busy on loan deadline day.

That's about 5 or 6 out then....enter........er....... Ritchie Humphries

[Paragon of Virtue]

Yay, another petty H again - MDCCCLXVI argument, never gets old this

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

NOKIN, on 25 November 2015 - 08:35 PM, said:

Come on, you're both as bad as each other.

Now I am insulted!

(Followed by one of them smiley-winky thingies, of course.)

[h again]

MDCCCLXVI, on 25 November 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

Other than the supercilious posturing you're pretty much repeating what you've said on many occasions before - Jimmy Ryan is a massive miss.

And as I've said before I agree.

However it's not just as simple as that. Saunders' side lacks tempo, purpose, direction and cohesion - infact everything we came to expect under Cook, win, lose or draw. We not only don't press the ball but players actually sit-off, which allows opponents to build momentum and confidence. Then when we do gain the ball our players are far too isolated, meaning passes go longer which in turn means they're more difficult to control and more easy to intercept. Furthermore where we used to have a mobile front four holding possession high up the pitch, forcing sides onto the back foot and alleviating pressure on our defence, we now have flat-footed plodders. Yeah E-B has scored a reasonable amount but he's what we used to call a 'goal-hanger', a striker who may enjoy regular goal bonuses yet offers little else to the team as a whole. Is it any wonder O'Shea is struggling to supply passes? That he - pretty much our only creative outlet - is being so comfortably marked out of games?

The whole approach is lacklustre, uncoordinated and witless.

As for the re-building job the more Saunders sympathetic speak of, let's be clear exactly what it was: replacing four players. Yes they were key players, but he had ample time and money - you seem happy to accept the Club's word as gospel the rest of the time so let's take the increased budget line at face value - to recruit something approaching like-for-like. He hasn't, infact even Saunders himself has been forced to sideline some of those to whom he handed deals whilst the others have been proven increasingly inadequate.

So we're left with a manager employing bewildering tactics who's squandered more than sufficient funding on sub-standard players.

As his CV, those fans of former clubs you scorned, and of course folk on here you dismissively described as 'wrist-slitters' warned he'd do all along.

Firstly, SEB has become the target for anybody determined to prove Deano's signings were all rubbish. In fact he puts in a lot of work chasing back, which he shouldn't have to do, he makes space brilliantly for other players, and he never gives the ball away. In addition he makes runs which are usually not picked up, and his positioning and finding space in the area are outstanding. I'd have pointed to his goal tally, but he blotted his copybook at Vale after finding yards of space on the six-yard box, not an easy thing to do.
O'Shea's problem isn't that he's marked out of the game - he probably sees more of the ball now than last season when he tended to drift out of games. His trouble is that there's no end product in the form of a killer pass or shot, and this when he has Novak and SEB in front who can both find a bit of space. He always has to beat another man instead of releasing the ball, bad decision making in other words. He started the season looking a lot better and fitter, but has gone back to his old ways - a pity, because when he's on song he's good to watch.
Saunders tactics are the same as he stated at the start of his reign - much like Cookie but more direct. At the risk of banging on in the usual way, if he had Ryan or equivalent in midfield he'd be well able to do it. He hasn't, so he can't, and there isn't much to replace it with, so the usual lack-of-midfield syndrome is becoming more apparent every game - we look disorganised,lethargic and short of ideas. His idea was fine - how many times did we watch Cookie's sides pass the ball beautifully right up to the edge of the penalty area - and then pass it beautifully all the way back again because nobody would have a shot? We'd settle for that now, but at the time it led to some murmuring among the fans, let's not forget.
Did I refer to some of your excellent supporters as 'wrist-slashers'. That was a bit naughty - I wouldn't want to upset anybody who's genuinely depressed - but as an optimistic sort of bloke the constant whingeing of you and them gives me the creeps. To be honest I'd rather be cheerful, positive and sometimes wrong than a constant misery who only sees the worst in people. Just personal preference, you understand.

[h again]

MDCCCLXVI, on 25 November 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

An old man hiding behind his keyboard spitting insults and accusations?

Proving himself a 'hypocrite-again' (d'y'see what I did there)?

I'd say pitiful is a far more accurate description, Mark.

Rather describes you and your posts about the CFC management, doesn't it? Check it out.

[dtp]

Elton John 1866, on 25 November 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

That's about 5 or 6 out then....enter........er....... Ritchie Humphries

Yes, that's the problem I am afraid and, am I right, the loan window closes tomorrow?

Also, at the AGM, there was talk of signing a player, Mitch had identified, for money - is there a possibility a deal is brewing?

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

azul, on 24 November 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

It might not be far off, home crowd at least

That's a different debate.

I'd say if we lose saturday, as I expect us to do, then the total cup crowd will be about 3600. Some season ticket holders will have bought tickets prior to last 2 defeats and if they were doing it this week, may not have purchased. Win satdy we might get 4k

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

h again, on 25 November 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

Rather describes you and your posts about the CFC management, doesn't it? Check it out.

Well here's the thing.

Everyone on here knows my name. Infact many can also put a face to that name as I've always joined in with the 'Bob's Board' communuity. What's more I've had quite a number of conversations with those very CFC figures you've repeatedly accused me of having an agenda against. Open, honest, friendly exchanges where we might not've agreed but have at least been civil. And that includes Bazza Hubbard, by the way, as at least one other forumite can testify to.

Contrast that with a bloke who constantly peddles hypocrisy, abuse and allegations whilst cowering behind his keyboard.

'Check it out'.

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 25 November 2015 - 10:20 PM

[Wooden Spoon]

h again, on 25 November 2015 - 07:11 PM, said:

I know the vast majority find it irritating when I'm positive after a rotten performance, so here's something to get you reaching for the reds.
In a long thread there are only two people who've made any attempt to analyse what's going wrong. One is spireman and the other, as usual, is dim view. The rest is just blame-the-manager literary ordure, and probably the reason why so many people who used to post sense no longer appear. 5 pages of posts saying the Manager is rubbish might make you feel better, but it ain't half boring to read. What do you think he should actually DO, for heavens sake.
So last night was garbage. Football sometimes is, even under Cookie. Firstly, it wasn't garbage caused by failing to make a profit - the playing budget is way up on last year, thanks to DA.
It was garbage because despite all attempts, and the long term injury to the bloke who was signed to fill the most important position, we haven't got a midfield. Sammy is on his own and three other players aren't contributing. There is no cover for the defence, and very little creativity going forward, and that's down to Herd, Gardner and O'Shea. What we're seeing now is what the defence would have been like last season if it hadn't had Ryan and Morsy in front of it, and despite Evatt being fitter and more commanding this term.
Herd was improving but seems to have stopped, subbing him for Banks tells us all we need to know. O'Shea started the season better but has reverted to his old trouble - no end product in terms of passes or goals. Gardner has the odd flash of genius but is as likely to lose the ball in a dangerous area as find a decent pass. We could probably carry one passenger, because Sammy is still worth two players, but three is only going to have one result.
We can criticise Deano's signings pre-season, but he was left with an enormous re-building job. The serious mistake seems to be Herd, who wouldn't be playing there anyway of Martinez wasn't injured. I haven't seen enough of O'Neill to judge, though what I have seen wasn't encouraging, but he needs a few games. SEB and Novak would be fine if there was anything coming from behind them.
So, he can only hang in there and hope Herd suddenly hacks it, try O'Neill, or go for a seriously good loan signing. Crack the business of a partner for Sammy and the rest might not fall into place, but we'd certainly be a lot tougher proposition. Add another midfielder with a bit of creativity - and who can track back productively - and we'd start to go places.
Big ask - I just hope he hasn't spent all the budget yet, because I can't see much future with the present lot. Just tinkering is no longer an option. Comfortable mid-table would be a good result after losing half the team - flirting with relegation can be avoided but only with a couple of good loan signings.

first thing to do. IMO.

Try to shore up the defensive side of the game and stop leaking 3 goals regularly.

Now that might mean putting 3 defensive CM in there, Morsy, Herd and O`niel. And then press the opposition as soon as they get to the half way line!!!

You could, if fit, use Talbot and Jones as wing backs and go with 3 at the back. 5 man midfield, and 5 man defence when pushed back.

Talbot and Jones cross balls in early hopefully SEB or Novak (but not both) to nick something. Play for free kicks and Corners. We seem to have improved on set pieces under DS.

As it is, we sit back, but cant defend. We don't press the ball when the opposition has it, and have 2 wide who don't defend and leave full backs isolated - and we have 2 good strikers who are very similar and don't seem to compliment each other. It seems we have a random collection of footballers, rather than a group of players selected to fit into a system. Do we have a system/style of play even?

[h again]

MDCCCLXVI, on 25 November 2015 - 10:17 PM, said:

Well here's the thing.

Everyone on here knows my name. Infact many can also put a face to that name as I've always joined in with the 'Bob's Board' communuity. What's more I've had quite a number of conversations with those very CFC figures you've repeatedly accused me of having an agenda against. Open, honest, friendly exchanges where we might not've agreed but have at least been civil. And that includes Bazza Hubbard, by the way, as at least one other forumite can testify to.

Contrast that with a bloke who constantly peddles hypocrisy, abuse and allegations whilst cowering behind his keyboard.

'Check it out'.

But that's what you do against the club you claim to support in nearly every post. Go back and have a look -- they're all there. Can it be you don't even realise you're doing it?
You'll have to excuse my cowering behind this keyboard. I thought it was the only way to post things on here, but I'm sure you must do something much braver, like submitting them to the Mods by semaphore from up Brampton or something.

[Wooden Spoon]

h again, on 25 November 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

Rather describes you and your posts about the CFC management, doesn't it? Check it out.

This is easy to sort out isn't it. Chris has spoken to club officials and bobs board members and is known to many people.

You remain anon. So meet him