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Football Supporters: Fans Or Customers?

#1 User is offline   The Earl of Chesterfield 

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 02:54 PM

Liverpool fans are up in arms over plans to increase some Anfield ticket prices to as much as seventy seven quid, a proposal that inspired a mass walk-out in the seventy seventh minute of yesterday's game (http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/35513425).

The protest led to a radio debate along the lines of 'football supporters: fans or customers?'. Here's my take.

Watching even third tier football isn't cheap, with Town having some of the most expensive prices in the lower leagues. Infact I've paid twenty seven of your English pounds for high profile fixtures, whilst hospitality packages have touched a ton - or more - on occasion. With that comes a sense of expectation, modern punters demanding quality for their quids both on and off the field. And charging top dollar means modern football clubs have a responsibility to deliver that quality - especially as there're so many other venues where folk can spend their leisure loot.

In other words yeah, we have become discerning customers who've every right to complain and walk away if those running things cock-up.

However genuine supporters simply cannot and will not swap one club for another, like changing from Tesco or ASDA to Aldi or Lidl, for example. There's an emotional, perhaps religious bond in some cases, that sees mature, intelligent people often tolerate sub-standard treatment before turning up for more season after season. It's something those who don the shirt of some distant Premiership outfit and declare themselves 'fans' (which is short for fanatic, of course, hardly the case when you've never even witnessed your adopted club in the flesh, so to speak) can never understand. It's about community; it's about belonging; it's about 'we' rather than 'me'.

And it's a connection used and abused by football club boards since time immemorial.

So my point? Well it's a two-way street. We are customers and deserve to be treated as such. However the Dave Allen's of this world are fortunate to have a captive audience.

Indeed he may be the Chairman of a business but he's also the custodian of a much loved historical institution. May that responsibility lay heavy upon him.

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 07 February 2016 - 03:38 PM

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#2 User is offline   Tylerdurdencfc 

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 03:08 PM

View PostMDCCCLXVI, on 07 February 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

Liverpool fans are up in arms over plans to increase some Anfield ticket prices to as much as seventy seven quid, a proposal that inspired a mass walk-out in the seventy seventh minute of yesterday's game (http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/35513425).

The protest led to a radio debate along the lines of 'football supporters: fans or customers?'. Here's my take.

Watching even third tier football isn't cheap, with Town having some of the most expensive prices in the lower leagues. Infact I've paid twenty seven of your English pounds for high profile fixtures, whilst hospitality packages have touched a ton - or more - on occasion. With that comes a sense of expectation, modern punters demanding quality for their quids both on and off the field. And charging top dollar means modern football clubs have a responsibility to deliver that quality - especially as there're so many other venues where folk can spend their leisure loot.

In other words yeah, we have become discerning customers who've every right to complain and walk away if those running things cock-up.

However genuine supporters simply cannot and will not swap from one club to another, like changing from Tesco or ASDA to Aldi or Lidl, for example. There's an emotional, perhaps religious bond in some cases, that sees mature, intelligent people often tolerate sub-standard treatment before turning up for more season after season. It's something those who don the shirt of some distant Premiership outfit and declare themselves 'fans' (which is short for fanatic, of course, hardly the case when you've never even witnessed your adopted club in the flesh, so to speak) can never understand. It's about community; it's about belonging; it's about 'we' rather than 'me'.

And it's a connection used and abused by football club boards since time immemorial.

So my point? Well it's a two-way street. We are customers and deserve to be treated as such. However the Dave Allen's of this world are fortunate to have a captive audience.

Indeed he may be the Chairman of a business but he's also the custodian of an historical institution. May that responsibility lay heavy upon him.


I'm a fan of my team, as a result of football in general i've got rid of Sky TV, and as a result of DA, CT and the boards poor mismanagement of club finances and leaving the club in the state it is and the distinct ' don't give a **** about their customers' attitude (which I don't agree with) they have effectively lost my custom from time to time.

Effectively clubs nowadays don't give two shits about their fans and exploit their loyalty, whilst lining the pockets of young arrogant tosspots and agreeing to large corporations every demand with no regard for the thousands of people they have affected in terms of financial commitment and messing about etc plus numerous small businesses that have lost money through teams being administration.

All the cock jockeys at the FA have allowed this to happen whilst lining their own pockets and feathering their own pension pots.

About time the banks called in the debts from all teams and **** it all up, the sooner the better, it's the only thing that will lead to measures that are brought in for the future in order to sustain football.
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#3 User is offline   clarevoyant. 

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 03:52 PM

Moving away from the boardroom angle, but fans/customers should not be expected to pay what equates to app £1 for every 4 minutes entertainment(?) to watch a big lump (albeit a professional lump) being afflicted with predetermined lumber stenosis
Until the powers that be do something about "matchtime" management football as an entertainment is on downward spiral
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#4 User is offline   DIFH 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 09:00 AM

View PostMDCCCLXVI, on 07 February 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

Liverpool fans are up in arms over plans to increase some Anfield ticket prices to as much as seventy seven quid, a proposal that inspired a mass walk-out in the seventy seventh minute of yesterday's game (http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/35513425).

The protest led to a radio debate along the lines of 'football supporters: fans or customers?'. Here's my take.

Watching even third tier football isn't cheap, with Town having some of the most expensive prices in the lower leagues. Infact I've paid twenty seven of your English pounds for high profile fixtures, whilst hospitality packages have touched a ton - or more - on occasion. With that comes a sense of expectation, modern punters demanding quality for their quids both on and off the field. And charging top dollar means modern football clubs have a responsibility to deliver that quality - especially as there're so many other venues where folk can spend their leisure loot.

In other words yeah, we have become discerning customers who've every right to complain and walk away if those running things cock-up.

However genuine supporters simply cannot and will not swap one club for another, like changing from Tesco or ASDA to Aldi or Lidl, for example. There's an emotional, perhaps religious bond in some cases, that sees mature, intelligent people often tolerate sub-standard treatment before turning up for more season after season. It's something those who don the shirt of some distant Premiership outfit and declare themselves 'fans' (which is short for fanatic, of course, hardly the case when you've never even witnessed your adopted club in the flesh, so to speak) can never understand. It's about community; it's about belonging; it's about 'we' rather than 'me'.

And it's a connection used and abused by football club boards since time immemorial.

So my point? Well it's a two-way street. We are customers and deserve to be treated as such. However the Dave Allen's of this world are fortunate to have a captive audience.

Indeed he may be the Chairman of a business but he's also the custodian of a much loved historical institution. May that responsibility lay heavy upon him.


The increased capacity has also seen a reduction of prices in some areas of the Anfield stadium, I wonder if increasing the capacity of this one stand has also incorporated the revamp of the facilities to accommodate the more afluent ATTENDEES as oppossed to the fans. Love em or hate em the club have spent millions on this development and in their eyes obviously feel they can ask an increase in matchday prices.

Remember not long ago prior to the arrival of the current American owners there were all sorts of financial concerns for Liverpool fc. We didn't hear any concerns from our scouser friends all they were concerned about was that someone had stepped in. Even after that the clamour for success against their big rivals saw the demand for more spending on the team irrespective of the financial state of things.

I don't think we can criticise the board of Liverpool fc for Swarez leaving, he had his own agenda and made the move happen. Following on from that Sterling did the same and it looks as though Sturridge could be the next.

The fans are never happy in the main there is always something for them to moan about, you could say it's part and parcel of being a fan. Scousers have always had that militant tendancy in their communities, strikes and protests were an everyday occurrence in the 80's. Saturdays walk-out for me just mirrored all that.

In the greater scheme of things several ex players have questioned the wisdom of a £77 match day ticket, the difference being minimal to what is currently charged.

Premiership clubs have additional millions incoming next season and we are a million miles away from all of that, BUT we are a mirror image to an extent of the big boys in that we clamoured for an investor in our hour of need all else be damned at the time. Having a small capacity stadium and a much less attractive product to folks out of the area we're having to attempt survival with one major investor not withstanding all thats going on.

Yes fans are customers but they are happy to sit on their hands and demand repeated spending when circumstances hit you hard as we are experiencing with injuries this season.

Businesses survive on profits, without profits someone has to support the business, in football all business sense seems to go out of the window - our football ego trip doesn't allow a measured approach and in many cases the average Joe is ambivalent to business goings on. Never the less his voice is as loud as the next man and we see the us and them situation develope as hard times bite.

No fan is fully aware of what monies are being generated by a club, they are certainly not privy to costs in this strange animal that is football. So as customers what are we really looking for from our club, do you want long term stability against short term success, Championship football opens a new debate with all it brings. Foreign ownership brings a miriad of issues, simply look at Pompey over the years, would you take a foreign owner ? just look round the leagues.



God I hate this league.
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#5 User is offline   dtp 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 10:36 AM

My simple take is that Sky etc are pumping money into football, and other sports, whilst the club's themselves continue to pump money out of football by means of paying salaries to players they can ill afford. The extra revenues coming in next season will make no difference at all to the financial stability of football clubs. They will basically remain with debt up to their ears with no thoughts to their long term financial stability as they give away the extra income to greedy players.

Until the salaries of the players are limited then this crazy mismanagement will continue. The big boys will look after themselves in terms of signing, quite often, average players and making them multi-millionaires. It is absolute madness but the clubs are in competition with each other and that competion means that if one is prepared to pay a player £150k a week another club will trump it with an offer of £175k. Then, guess what, this player from the other side of nowhere will declare it has been his lifetime ambition to play for whichever team it is he has signed for rather than tell the truth and say that club wanted him more because they came up with the best salary package.

No, Sky etc want armchair customers, they are not interested in the real fans. There is enough money going into football to bring admittance prices down to a level affordable to virtually everybody and their families. Stadiums could be full and atmospheres fantastic throughout the leagues and not just the premiership.

In England, though, this will not happen, Premiership Clubs are not bothered about any Clubs in the Football League. They are too greedy looking after themselves looking after greedy players. Sky etc are getting what they want and they are not interested how the monies they pump in to the game is distributed.

Bayern Munich are spot on with their season ticket pricing policies with some being available at just over £100. As they say, if they were to increase the price of all season tickets by £200 it would bring in another £2 million but what is £2 million to them it could go in 5 minutes negotiation on a transfer fee.

A few shock waves are required at the very top to bring a change in attitudes. For instance, what would happen at Chelsea if Abromovich pulled the plug, demanded his money back, and no one else was prepared to come in and pay the asking price?

This post has been edited by dtp: 09 February 2016 - 10:37 AM

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#6 User is offline   CFC91 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 10:59 AM

The underlying factor is that gate receipts at the top level make up a tiny tiny proportion of clubs revenues, there is no need to justify the prices they do and definitely no need to keep hiking them up. Was understandable post Taylor Report when clubs had to spend millions they didn't have on upgrading stadiums but now there are so many different income streams those prices should now be capped at £20/£25 max for all - not just away supporters.

The bad PR Sky/PL have received over the weekend is a good start but this momentum should be built upon and pressure constantly applied and clubs will get somewhere - it took time in Germany, it took time in other countries but football without the fans is nothing and that is the underlying fact - you can't market a league where the grounds are empty so hopefully others will follow Liverpool
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#7 User is offline   60s 70s Spireite 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 11:05 AM

View PostCFC91, on 09 February 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

The underlying factor is that gate receipts at the top level make up a tiny tiny proportion of clubs revenues, there is no need to justify the prices they do and definitely no need to keep hiking them up. Was understandable post Taylor Report when clubs had to spend millions they didn't have on upgrading stadiums but now there are so many different income streams those prices should now be capped at £20/£25 max for all - not just away supporters.

The bad PR Sky/PL have received over the weekend is a good start but this momentum should be built upon and pressure constantly applied and clubs will get somewhere - it took time in Germany, it took time in other countries but football without the fans is nothing and that is the underlying fact - you can't market a league where the grounds are empty so hopefully others will follow Liverpool

Its critical in all this that there remains a tier of pricing, so it is always more expensive to watch Premier League football compared to Leagues 1 and 2. £100 to watch Chelsea, Arsenal or Manchester United a season - or Accrington or Morecambe?

Which means a much better distribution of TV income throughout the leagues. Fat chance! Bring on the £2000 season ticket at the top, and lets welcome disaffected fans here.
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#8 User is offline   clarevoyant. 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 01:44 PM

View PostDave In Footie Heaven, on 09 February 2016 - 09:00 AM, said:

The increased capacity has also seen a reduction of prices in some areas of the Anfield stadium, I wonder if increasing the capacity of this one stand has also incorporated the revamp of the facilities to accommodate the more afluent ATTENDEES as oppossed to the fans. Love em or hate em the club have spent millions on this development and in their eyes obviously feel they can ask an increase in matchday prices.

Remember not long ago prior to the arrival of the current American owners there were all sorts of financial concerns for Liverpool fc. We didn't hear any concerns from our scouser friends all they were concerned about was that someone had stepped in. Even after that the clamour for success against their big rivals saw the demand for more spending on the team irrespective of the financial state of things.

I don't think we can criticise the board of Liverpool fc for Swarez leaving, he had his own agenda and made the move happen. Following on from that Sterling did the same and it looks as though Sturridge could be the next.

The fans are never happy in the main there is always something for them to moan about, you could say it's part and parcel of being a fan. Scousers have always had that militant tendancy in their communities, strikes and protests were an everyday occurrence in the 80's. Saturdays walk-out for me just mirrored all that.

In the greater scheme of things several ex players have questioned the wisdom of a £77 match day ticket, the difference being minimal to what is currently charged.

Premiership clubs have additional millions incoming next season and we are a million miles away from all of that, BUT we are a mirror image to an extent of the big boys in that we clamoured for an investor in our hour of need all else be damned at the time. Having a small capacity stadium and a much less attractive product to folks out of the area we're having to attempt survival with one major investor not withstanding all thats going on.

Yes fans are customers but they are happy to sit on their hands and demand repeated spending when circumstances hit you hard as we are experiencing with injuries this season.

Businesses survive on profits, without profits someone has to support the business, in football all business sense seems to go out of the window - our football ego trip doesn't allow a measured approach and in many cases the average Joe is ambivalent to business goings on. Never the less his voice is as loud as the next man and we see the us and them situation develope as hard times bite.

No fan is fully aware of what monies are being generated by a club, they are certainly not privy to costs in this strange animal that is football. So as customers what are we really looking for from our club, do you want long term stability against short term success, Championship football opens a new debate with all it brings. Foreign ownership brings a miriad of issues, simply look at Pompey over the years, would you take a foreign owner ? just look round the leagues.

Stop copying Warfys homework
Derbyshire is Derbyshire
Yorkshire is Yorkshire

Never the twain shall meet.
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#9 User is offline   SpireiteFitzy 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 01:47 PM

Nothing will ever really change until a countrywide protest on the scale of Liverpool takes place. If suddenly games were only getting.g watched by 20/30% full stadiums then the powers that would be will have to listen. But of course people will keep going regardless so there will never be a change.
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#10 User is offline   Nerima Spireite 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 03:14 PM

Some very interesting arguments on here, the vast majority of which I agree with.

I would just like to add that the community spirit of clubs is being decimated by the cash involved. The Premier league is awash with cash and it is there that more and more traditional fans, outpriced, are being forced to watch from pubs or buy Sky and stay home. Or kick the habit. Which is not easy for the generation raised upon footy but will get easier and easier to wean away from in the following generations - the bedrock of consumers will thus disappear, leaving the more affluent fan, who is more disinclined to attend through tough times and require more entertainment. If that is not forthcoming, these "fans" will stop turning up/move to another hobby/club as I believe there are fewer residing locally and fewer with the club "in their veins". What will clubs do when the (lack of) entertainment provided results in dwindling attendances? If the money keeps coming in via Sky/sponsors, then they needn't care. However, ultimately, since Sky/sponsors rely on interest in their "product" (ugh!) from the populace, there will come a tipping point when this interest won't manifest itself in profits. This may be decades away yet, but it will come, and it is even now, exacerbated by increased competition from other entertainment sectors. This putrid mire is seeping down the divisions and that is why so many traditional fans either give up or increasingly go non-league to get the feel of footy as it used to be.

There is no reason why Premier teams could - as a previous poster stated - reduce prices significantly to allow the traditional, working class fans access to follow their clubs again in the grounds, thus reviving the passion in stadia that has all but evaporated, thereby enhancing the viewing experience on TV, thus making a solid deposit in ensuring the future of top-flight football is guaranteed/healthy. How would that impact on us smaller clubs? Are we really now enjoying the financial benefits of disaffected fans who cannot afford to follow the big guns? If they reduced prices, as another poster already stated, would we suffer? I'd just hope for a trickle down affect reverse to what is happening now, and overturning this false economy spent in players wages. But I'm no expert or futurist.

I am so disaffected with football as seen on TV. I'm born and bred a Town fan. But the distance involved for me makes it hard. I don't want to lose my love of the game I grew up to love, but they're making it hard for me.

Incidentally, clubs over here in Japan were initially started out as corporate investments. Recently, clubs in the J-league have focused on highlighting and strengthening ties to their local communities. Prices are reasonable (16 quid for entry to my preferred top-flight team where I live) and stable. Standing areas are provided and fans appreciated. Attendances are increasing season upon season across all (expanding) divisions. Is there a lesson to be learned here?
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#11 User is offline   Brookie 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 03:54 PM

As I see it clubs want instant success to get into the Premier League and gain access to the money from the TV deals. What doesn't square with me is that when they get there they seem to squander the money by spending it on "Cheap Imports" and high wages, lose money, push for higher TV deals and the spiral never ends.

To me the only "Fans" they are interested in are the ones who follow on TV and spend inflated prices on merchandise, it's almost got to the point where home fans are there only to create some atmosphere at the ground.

Football was more enjoyable when players worked their way up through the leagues and then towards the end of their career dropped back down to pass on their knowledge. Now with the salaries they get they either go back home, retire, become a pundit or fail as a manager, what they don't do is put something back into the game that made them.

Whether the Derby manager was sacked for not using youth players or other reasons surely we have to get managers into the game who are prepared to develop players and Boardrooms stop this nonsense of sacking managers after a few games, Saunders being the exception to this who should have gone after pre-season
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#12 User is offline   Nerima Spireite 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 04:15 PM

View PostBrookie, on 09 February 2016 - 03:54 PM, said:

As I see it clubs want instant success to get into the Premier League and gain access to the money from the TV deals. What doesn't square with me is that when they get there they seem to squander the money by spending it on "Cheap Imports" and high wages, lose money, push for higher TV deals and the spiral never ends.

To me the only "Fans" they are interested in are the ones who follow on TV and spend inflated prices on merchandise, it's almost got to the point where home fans are there only to create some atmosphere at the ground.

Football was more enjoyable when players worked their way up through the leagues and then towards the end of their career dropped back down to pass on their knowledge. Now with the salaries they get they either go back home, retire, become a pundit or fail as a manager, what they don't do is put something back into the game that made them.

Whether the Derby manager was sacked for not using youth players or other reasons surely we have to get managers into the game who are prepared to develop players and Boardrooms stop this nonsense of sacking managers after a few games, Saunders being the exception to this who should have gone after pre-season


Following what comes before, that last line is hilarious! :blush:
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#13 User is offline   Mr.Spireite 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 04:19 PM

I lost my religion.....Haven't been for about 10 years and don;t miss it after rarely missing a game from 1984-2000

It all got too expensive then and It's still too expensive now, even at this level.
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#14 User is offline   newboldsteve 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 05:18 PM

View PostSpireiteFitzy, on 09 February 2016 - 01:47 PM, said:

Nothing will ever really change until a countrywide protest on the scale of Liverpool takes place. If suddenly games were only getting.g watched by 20/30% full stadiums then the powers that would be will have to listen. But of course people will keep going regardless so there will never be a change.


its hard for supporters of big clubs not to buy there season ticket they spent 20 years on a list for. But its not hard to cancel sky sports. I refuse to pay for that bunch of overpaid ankers . I did buy myself a android tv box and watch sports for free

This post has been edited by newboldsteve: 09 February 2016 - 05:21 PM

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#15 User is offline   moondog 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 05:39 PM

View PostNerima Spireite, on 09 February 2016 - 03:14 PM, said:

Some very interesting arguments on here, the vast majority of which I agree with.

I would just like to add that the community spirit of clubs is being decimated by the cash involved. The Premier league is awash with cash and it is there that more and more traditional fans, outpriced, are being forced to watch from pubs or buy Sky and stay home. Or kick the habit. Which is not easy for the generation raised upon footy but will get easier and easier to wean away from in the following generations - the bedrock of consumers will thus disappear, leaving the more affluent fan, who is more disinclined to attend through tough times and require more entertainment. If that is not forthcoming, these "fans" will stop turning up/move to another hobby/club as I believe there are fewer residing locally and fewer with the club "in their veins". What will clubs do when the (lack of) entertainment provided results in dwindling attendances? If the money keeps coming in via Sky/sponsors, then they needn't care. However, ultimately, since Sky/sponsors rely on interest in their "product" (ugh!) from the populace, there will come a tipping point when this interest won't manifest itself in profits. This may be decades away yet, but it will come, and it is even now, exacerbated by increased competition from other entertainment sectors. This putrid mire is seeping down the divisions and that is why so many traditional fans either give up or increasingly go non-league to get the feel of footy as it used to be.

There is no reason why Premier teams could - as a previous poster stated - reduce prices significantly to allow the traditional, working class fans access to follow their clubs again in the grounds, thus reviving the passion in stadia that has all but evaporated, thereby enhancing the viewing experience on TV, thus making a solid deposit in ensuring the future of top-flight football is guaranteed/healthy. How would that impact on us smaller clubs? Are we really now enjoying the financial benefits of disaffected fans who cannot afford to follow the big guns? If they reduced prices, as another poster already stated, would we suffer? I'd just hope for a trickle down affect reverse to what is happening now, and overturning this false economy spent in players wages. But I'm no expert or futurist.

I am so disaffected with football as seen on TV. I'm born and bred a Town fan. But the distance involved for me makes it hard. I don't want to lose my love of the game I grew up to love, but they're making it hard for me.

Incidentally, clubs over here in Japan were initially started out as corporate investments. Recently, clubs in the J-league have focused on highlighting and strengthening ties to their local communities. Prices are reasonable (16 quid for entry to my preferred top-flight team where I live) and stable. Standing areas are provided and fans appreciated. Attendances are increasing season upon season across all (expanding) divisions. Is there a lesson to be learned here?



Out of interest Nerm what is your local side ?
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#16 User is offline   JonB 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 06:06 PM

View Postnewboldsteve, on 09 February 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

its hard for supporters of big clubs not to buy there season ticket they spent 20 years on a list for. But its not hard to cancel sky sports. I refuse to pay for that bunch of overpaid ankers . I did buy myself a android tv box and watch sports for free

Problem is that as these boxes become more popular they will get targeted. Whilst buying/owning the box isn't an issue the streams they use will be as it's copyrighted material in effect so probably only a matter of time before its nigh on impossible to find a stream of what you want to watch.
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#17 User is offline   Goku 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 06:09 PM

View PostJonB, on 09 February 2016 - 06:06 PM, said:

Problem is that as these boxes become more popular they will get targeted. Whilst buying/owning the box isn't an issue the streams they use will be as it's copyrighted material in effect so probably only a matter of time before its nigh on impossible to find a stream of what you want to watch.


ppl will just keep making new streams every time one is taken down - look at piratebay, still active and available despite all sorts of attempt trying to remove it
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#18 User is offline   Cartman 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 06:44 PM

View PostGoku, on 09 February 2016 - 06:09 PM, said:

ppl will just keep making new streams every time one is taken down - look at piratebay, still active and available despite all sorts of attempt trying to remove it


As soon as Sky and BT see profits down due to these 'dodgy' boxes they will target them, as technology improves they will find ways to monitor people using the streams and start taking people to court, give it a few years
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#19 User is offline   newboldsteve 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 06:45 PM

View PostJonB, on 09 February 2016 - 06:06 PM, said:

Problem is that as these boxes become more popular they will get targeted. Whilst buying/owning the box isn't an issue the streams they use will be as it's copyrighted material in effect so probably only a matter of time before its nigh on impossible to find a stream of what you want to watch.


why ever sky stream the games to all over the world someone will hijack them the box cost me 50 quid so paid for its self in 2 months and if you get the box from a good distributer its come with sports channels from all over the world . and on Saturdays they stream every prem game so you can chose who to watch plus movies and boxsets its a nobrainer and i'm 200 quid better off





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#20 User is offline   Ernie Ernie Ernie 

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 06:59 PM

View Postmoondog, on 09 February 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

Out of interest Nerm what is your local side ?



I will guess at FC Tokyo
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