[Goku]

Very all-encompassing and ambiguous fred title.

Before I start discussion I want to state I'm not preaching or anything like that - merely interested in opinions. I mean, I can make a reasonable estimation of what they may be, but I'd like to be surprised. Also, I don't know a great deal about this myself, so would like to learn more.

Okay so I guess I should speak about what the thread's about and well, it's a number of things really. I suppose the general theme is the world we inhabit and ethical choices we make. So, my recent choice has been to give being a vegan a go (it's not completely vegan, there's a small amount of free range egg in the quorn I'll be eating but I was struggling for protein without overloading on carbs in all honesty). Initially it's a week-long experiment to see how my body reacts and how I get on with having a much more limited food selection. I'm not making a promise that things will stay this way because I'm realistic enough to realise that I'm not the most strong-willed of people but I'm at least giving it a bash.

So, why am I reconsidering my food consumption choices? Well, this is the main reason;

https://www.youtube....h?v=ibuQ-J04eLQ

I'd say don't watch if you're squeamish - but f**k that, this is something that should be watched to at least make people consider what they're putting into their bodies. This video made me realise that if you're man enough to eat meat you should be man enough to view what can happen in slaughterhouses - I forced myself to watch the entire thing and it was horrific. But it's got me thinking, which is a good thing, even if you could just say that what occurs in the video is only a minority (that's not an opinion I believe in, by the way, as I believe the majority of people who work at slaughterhouses will already have or will develop mental issues or emotional detachment after working there for a while but I can't prove that so we'll leave it). As I watched the video I realised I had been a part of this - an indirect murderer, so to speak, which really got to me. It especially made me feel worse as I am someone who can regularly knock back 4+ chicken breasts a day, tuna, bacon, turkey, milk, eggs - the lot. Now that is a cancerous diet if I've ever seen one - someone who regularly eats red meat has blood up to 8x more carcinogenic than someone who eats an entirely plant-based diet and also increases their risk of heart disease exponentially. That's scary. Even only going vegetarian will mean you're 40% less likely to contract cancer when compared with a meat eater. This is especially apparent when it comes to females - for example, in Japan, breast cancer rates for women are a lot lower than they are in the USA yet even in Japan, women who eat meat regularly are up to 8.5 times more likely to develop breast cancer than women who rarely or never eat meat. I could go on but it's getting preachy isn't it? Here's the link for a lot of what I've just written with reference points to studies made: http://www.pcrm.org/...and-cancer-risk

This isn't even scratching the surface - the dairy industry is insane - I could bang on about how cows are raped (as they obviously have to become pregnant to produce milk) and how that due to genetic manipulation today's cows now produce 12 times more milk than cows "back in the day". Obviously as the cows are almost constantly pregnant they pop out sprogs who are shipped off to the veal/cheap beef industry. Meanwhile, mother cow dies at one third of her predicted life cycle due to the constant abuse on her body (rape/pregnancy/get milk from udder/remove child/rape again) and her carcass is shipped off to become hamburger meat at your favourite fast food joint and that's not to mention we shouldn't be drinking milk in the first place! It is fluid designed to turn a small calf into a fully grown behemoth of a creature and we humans drink that?! Just because you've been told that you need to drink milk to get strong bones since you worra lad does not make it true.

That's just the animal cruelty part of it - obviously if one wants to broaden their horizons they can look into other documentaries and web sites - I watched a documentary tonight called Cowspiracy (https://www.youtube....h?v=mVOX_5zFD7I) which is someone going to companies like Save the Rainforests & Greenpeace and suchlike and providing them with the fact that animal agriculture is the cause of 18% of greenhouse gas emissions - more than the combined exhaust of all transportation and the companies basically respond with "we can't speak about that" or "that's your opinion, I can't comment" and instead only focus on fossil fuels etc... things aren't adding up, are they?

I've rattled on enough now in what was only supposed to be an introductory post - I'll no doubt add more but what do the posters of Bobs Board think? Do you think about what you put into your body? Do you think about whether things like climate change are basically hidden by those in power or pushed to the side? Can you add anything else to this? Is it easier to live in complete ignorance and hope for the best rather than care about the world you're leaving behind for your children or do you just think "meh, I'm only one person, not like I can do owt"? - I'm truly interested in any responses.

[Wooden Spoon]

Trouble with the modern world is food comes from nice little plastic packets and that's as far as people think about it


I keep my own chickens, bug my meat in "halves" from a local farm so no probs with it here

[Search & Destroy]

Cheap meat must equal poor standards of welfare, it absolutely must.

[Wooden Spoon]

That raises some very interesting questions.

Is meat really affordable I guess is the first important one?

It takes a heck of a lot of arable land to grow the feed needed for these huge cattle farms - Is that wise?

If cattle were left to graze naturally, you would need acres of land for very few cattle, are simple things like milk affordable?

Do we then also ditch leather as a resource?

What happens to our pets? What do we feed our cats and dogs?

Chicken, per lb. of meat takes up the least amount of resources of farmed meat, is this the best way forward?

So the alternative? Often people eat fish as an alternative, but again we have similar issues. Farmed fish in huge net cages at the mouths of estuaries (salmon), disease potentially can flourish and then spread into wild fish stocks or hoover the oceans of life? Stocks of fish are already dangerously low.




Muscles grown on frayed ropes are about as clean and renewable as you can get - but again if it is to be a staple - it would need huge amounts to be farmed.

Insects being farmed? possible. Waste paper (cellulose) could be a very useful source for bugs to lay larvae - these larvae could be harvested and processed into things like sausages, burgers etc.

[Wooden Spoon]

That raises some very interesting questions.

Is meat really affordable I guess is the first important one?

It takes a heck of a lot of arable land to grow the feed needed for these huge cattle farms - Is that wise?

If cattle were left to graze naturally, you would need acres of land for very few cattle, are simple things like milk affordable?

Do we then also ditch leather as a resource?

What happens to our pets? What do we feed our cats and dogs?

Chicken, per lb. of meat takes up the least amount of resources of farmed meat, is this the best way forward?

So the alternative? Often people eat fish as an alternative, but again we have similar issues. Farmed fish in huge net cages at the mouths of estuaries (salmon), disease potentially can flourish and then spread into wild fish stocks or hoover the oceans of life? Stocks of fish are already dangerously low.




Muscles grown on frayed ropes are about as clean and renewable as you can get - but again if it is to be a staple - it would need huge amounts to be farmed.

Insects being farmed? possible. Waste paper (cellulose) could be a very useful source for bugs to lay larvae - these larvae could be harvested and processed into things like sausages, burgers etc.

[Heavy_Soul]

Funny you should post this.

I recently ordered a vegan starter kit with recipes etc - which is still yet to arrive.

I just wanted to give non meat eating another go and try a few vegan recipes out.

However, I keep chickens and ducks which give me a good supply of eggs. I know what they eat, how much space they have and how well looked after so there's nothing on my consience about eating my own eggs. I could never however keep them for meat purposes.


I'll let you know how I get on with the meat free/ partial vegan diet once the pack arrives and I've given it a proper go.

[trickytrevsfanclub]

I love meat and I love milk, no way I'd ever consider giving them up.

[SpireiteFitzy]

NOKIN, on 30 November 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

I have heard of this Cowspiracy documentary from a bloke I know. After he watched it he stopped eating meat. I haven't brought myself to watch it yet but now you have raised the issue I may well do now.

I'm a pescetarian so obviously meat isn't an issue for me however I do make my own sausages for the family and I do have one now and again. I started making my own sausages after the wife sent me down to Tesco to get some and uncharacteristically I took time to read the label; 35% pork meat...... I went home and researched making my own, I now know exactly what goes into them and where it comes from.

As I eat mainly fish I dont feel so bad, I try to eat lots of shell fish, lots of different whitefish (river fish) and I only eat line caught tuna. I'm not perfect by any stretch and being on a fish diet doesn't stop the pounds from piling on (I'm a cheese addict) but the plight of animals, my health and the damage cattle are doing to the planet did have an influence on my decision to change my diet to pescetarian.

Without wishing to sound like an old ***, when we were growing up meat was a treat, now due to its mass production its become a daily staple for many and I'm not convinced that's a good thing. We hear the term "everything in moderation" and I think that's good advice.

It will be interesting to see if the consumption of meat will be high on the agenda in Paris this week.

May I ask why? Your still eating animal meat from a creature that has been killed so you can consume it. It's hooked or scooped out of water and suffocates to death so it's not like it doesnt suffer. Pescetarians are exactly the same as people who eat meat in general, the scope of meat they eat is less but they still do it.

[Misnomer]

I'm sure cows are artificially inseminated? And, we have been utilising milk from various cattle for thousands of years.....however, unless we kill about two thirds of the human population, intensive farming is only going to get far worse; the mega cattle sites in America greatly disturb me, as does over-fishing. Any abattoir footage is enough to turn the stomachs of most folk.

[Misnomer]

SpireiteFitzy, on 30 November 2015 - 10:10 PM, said:

May I ask why? Your still eating animal meat from a creature that has been killed so you can consume it. It's hooked or scooped out of water and suffocates to death so it's not like it doesnt suffer. Pescetarians are exactly the same as people who eat meat in general, the scope of meat they eat is less but they still do it.

I absolutely agree with you; there is no difference whatsoever, the fish still suffers. Watch a blue fin tuna being hooked and brought on board; it is an uncomfortable site watching it struggle for freedom and then slowly die.

[Bonnyman]

i feel really bad...i had sharks fin soup..whale meat sushi and a nice piece of veal for lunch..... whale sushi is so much better eaten with ivory chopsticks.

[Goku]

Misnomer, on 30 November 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

I'm sure cows are artificially inseminated? And, we have been utilising milk from various cattle for thousands of years.....however, unless we kill about two thirds of the human population, intensive farming is only going to get far worse; the mega cattle sites in America greatly disturb me, as does over-fishing. Any abattoir footage is enough to turn the stomachs of most folk.

They are artificially inseminated with a long rod/gun type thing whilst they have an arm up their anus at the same time. Milk is odd when you think about it. Something that is designed to take a small baby calf and turn it into a great big cow and humans drink it lol. At least 65% of the human population (some sources say 75%) show signs of lactose intolerance post-weaning which is a pretty sure-fire sign that we weren't meant to drink milk post-childhood. We are the only species who drink the breast milk of another species. Cow milk is the one thing I am ruling out of my diet forever even if I do go back to eating meat etc. due to the nonsensicality of it and I'll stick to soy/rice/coconut milk instead.

Sorry if that was teaching granny how to suck eggs, I know you're more nutritionally-endowed than I am, it was more for the benefit of other people who may be reading.

As for the rest of your post, I agree. I don't see a positive end at all for our children/grandchildren in the future. It's not like everyone's gonna suddenly turn vegan/veggie and people quite simply just don't give a toss about animal agriculture because most of them will be dead before the planet finally keels over (doesn't help that most organisations and our government actively hide the impact that animal agriculture is having on our ecosystem, like).

Edit; just rechecked my first post and realised I mentioned the cows milk thing before in less detail, sorry, didn't mean to come across as repeating myself.

This post has been edited by Goku: 30 November 2015 - 10:48 PM

[s42blue]

NOKIN, on 01 December 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

Why I dont feel so bad?

I'm not trying to insinuate I am holier than thou, I'm not but I consider it the lesser of two evils. The end result is death for the particular animal/fish, there's no getting away from that but its the process that bothers me. The fish I eat swims in the sea or rivers (I don't eat farmed fish, I eat mussels which are farmed). The way our meat, particularly beef, is reared I am not so keen on.

Take eggs for instance, I would never, ever buy barn eggs because the way the chickens are treated but I do eat eggs. I happen to have some chickens that run free and enjoy life so I eat their eggs but if I had to buy them I would buy locally at a farm shop.

I disagree that Pescetarians are the same as meat eaters, what they have in common is creatures die but it ends there for me. I have absolutely nothing against people who eat red meat, its their choice, I eat the odd homemade sausage myself but the damage to the planet its creating is there for all to see. We eat too much red mead because its intensively farmed and readily available all year round.

The scope of meat isn't less by the way. You go into a supermarket and generally you see Beef, Pork, Lamb and Chicken. Go to the fishmonger and you see Cod, Mackrel, Sole, Haddock, Tuna, Salmon, Trout Plaice, Skate, Prawns, Squid and it goes on and on. The variety is much better.

I disagree the variety is better...beef: rump/sirloin, flat, brisket, fillet; sheep: lamb, loin, chops, mutton; same for pork. Veal, venison, turkey, pheasant, etc. And offal. Not making any comment on your choices or opinions but think you're being judicious with your "facts".

[Town_Fan]

Goku, on 30 November 2015 - 12:33 AM, said:

Blah blah blah. *insert hippy video with the worst bits selectively edit together*

An interesting OP, I'm off to Bodeans for some Burnt Ends to give it a bit more thought.

[Goku]

Town_Fan, on 01 December 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

An interesting OP, I'm off to Bodeans for some Burnt Ends to give it a bit more thought.

You can sit in the dunce's corner next to TrickyTrev and bonnyman if you'd like

[Goku]

This seems like a positive step, at least;

http://www.theguardi...icrosoft-amazon

[trickytrevsfanclub]

Surely as a species we are omnivores anyway or at least we evolved as omnivores over thousands of years. It's only because we have highly developed intelligence that we can choose what we eat nowadays.

If people choose to become veggie, vegan or whatever on moral or health grounds then that's their choice but nature developed us to be able to eat all sorts of different things which is why we have a mixture of teeth types, canines, molars etc.