[isleaiw1]

No political pointscoring but would you want Corbyn and McDonnell having to refer back to the unions and the NEC, with probably an all party vote before they made a decision?

Boris said he had been with the TUC and the CBI in deciding what to do that was announced last night. They have had key people from retailers in to discuss food supplies.

We are all in it together. Except those who aren’t obvs...

PS Chris, just as I know you will appreciate it, all of our staff (from CEO down, including senior managers and everyone...) are under consultation for redundancy, lay-off, and short hours. No protection for anyone. Oh, and my private health care won’t help as all the hospitals have been handed over - rightly.

[fishini]

isleaiw1, on 21 March 2020 - 08:31 PM, said:

No political pointscoring but would you want Corbyn and McDonnell having to refer back to the unions and the NEC, with probably an all party vote before they made a decision?

Boris said he had been with the TUC and the CBI in deciding what to do that was announced last night. They have had key people from retailers in to discuss food supplies.

We are all in it together. Except those who aren’t obvs...

PS Chris, just as I know you will appreciate it, all of our staff (from CEO down, including senior managers and everyone...) are under consultation for redundancy, lay-off, and short hours. No protection for anyone. Oh, and my private health care won’t help as all the hospitals have been handed over - rightly.

Rightly so given the tax perks funded by the taxpayers. Taxpayers who could never in their wildest dreams ever be able to access the very hospitals they are helping to fund. These hospitals should be totally self Funded

[isleaiw1]

fishini, on 21 March 2020 - 08:49 PM, said:

Rightly so given the tax perks funded by the taxpayers. Taxpayers who could never in their wildest dreams ever be able to access the very hospitals they are helping to fund. These hospitals should be totally self Funded

Well I have had private healthcare for most of my working life. Paid for by my employers and so taxable. As a family cover it’s been £800 plus taxable benefit each year, say that has been 30 years and 40% tax for majority. Say £10k in tax over the time. And how often have I used it...

Never. Nada. Nite. None.

That’s a lot of tax going to fund public services...

[dtp]

isleaiw1, on 21 March 2020 - 08:31 PM, said:

PS Chris, just as I know you will appreciate it, all of our staff (from CEO down, including senior managers and everyone...) are under consultation for redundancy, lay-off, and short hours. No protection for anyone. Oh, and my private health care won’t help as all the hospitals have been handed over - rightly.

Hang on. That's not fair. Chris is now in a very difficult position - he has another decision to make as he can't go to the pub instead of going to the Proact - what can he do now instead of sitting at home with the missus?

I understand she's the only one that wins the arguments in their house!!!!

[isleaiw1]

dtp, on 21 March 2020 - 09:03 PM, said:

Hang on. That's not fair. Chris is now in a very difficult position - he has another decision to make as he can't go to the pub instead of going to the Proact - what can he do now instead of sitting at home with the missus?

I understand she's the only one that wins the arguments in their house!!!!

No one to argue with in my house - except my son in law, boarding school educated.... but my daughter forbids that!

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 21 March 2020 - 09:03 PM, said:

Hang on. That's not fair. Chris is now in a very difficult position - he has another decision to make as he can't go to the pub instead of going to the Proact - what can he do now instead of sitting at home with the missus?

I understand she's the only one that wins the arguments in their house!!!!

Well I can't argue with that, Dave!

Though there is a third option - getting into robust debates with my friends on here.

Enjoyed it. Ta.

[dtp]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 21 March 2020 - 09:38 PM, said:

Well I can't argue with that, Dave!

Though there is a third option - getting into robust debates with my friends on here.

Enjoyed it. Ta.

Exactly.

Sweet dreams, Chris, and don't forget for the first time I can remember in my long lifetime safe sex means keeping two metres apart.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

isleaiw1, on 21 March 2020 - 09:03 PM, said:

Well I have had private healthcare for most of my working life. Paid for by my employers and so taxable. As a family cover it’s been £800 plus taxable benefit each year, say that has been 30 years and 40% tax for majority. Say £10k in tax over the time. And how often have I used it...

Never. Nada. Nite. None.

That’s a lot of tax going to fund public services...

Perhaps there's a much wider discussion to be had about how the current crisis may re-define political thinking, Ian.

The free market ideology we've been heading towards over recent years could never deal with such a challenge. Which is probably why the likes of the 'Taxpayers Alliance' have gone so quiet. In fact the dog-eat-dog, law of the jungle, wild West style society they espouse - manifested in hoarders grabbing whatever they can whenever they can - is the exact opposite of the 'all in this together', community based approach even Johnson's now calling for.

What happened to accusations of a 'nanny state' when folk are told what's best for them? Where would we be without the tax funded infrastructure they've so often sought to dismantle? How could private ambulances and private hospitals and private medics demanding private insurance possibly meet a very public epidemic?

And I make no apology whatsoever for once more championing the army of supposedly overpaid and underworked public servants now performing heroics in the fight against CV19.

When Sunak stood up in Parliament to address the threat he didn't turn to the markets for help, to the City or hedgefund managers he used to call colleagues, he turned to public spending. Hopefully a lesson will be learned...

[isleaiw1]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 21 March 2020 - 10:22 PM, said:

Perhaps there's a much wider discussion to be had about how the current crisis may re-define political thinking, Ian.

The free market ideology we've been heading towards over recent years could never deal with such a challenge. Which is probably why the likes of the 'Taxpayers Alliance' have gone so quiet. In fact the dog-eat-dog, law of the jungle, wild West style society they espouse - manifested in hoarders grabbing whatever they can whenever they can - is the exact opposite of the 'all in this together', community based approach even Johnson's now calling for.

What happened to accusations of a 'nanny state' when folk are told what's best for them? Where would we be without the tax funded infrastructure they've so often sought to dismantle? How could private ambulances and private hospitals and private medics demanding private insurance possibly meet a very public epidemic?

And I make no apology whatsoever for once more championing the army of supposedly overpaid and underworked public servants now performing heroics in the fight against CV19.

When Sunak stood up in Parliament to address the threat he didn't turn to the markets for help, to the City or hedgefund managers he used to call colleagues, he turned to public spending. Hopefully a lesson will be learned...

In a crisis, you go where you have control. In a war, you don’t hope people make the tanks, you commandeer places and get on with it.

In peacetime you probably get better decisionsif the market has more input - look at North Korea, look at how China’s wealth has multiplied since they adopted more free market approach.

There is room for both.

But I suspect we will never agree on this

[azul]

isleaiw1, on 21 March 2020 - 08:23 PM, said:

That is complete crap. He has 66m peoples health, an economy and everything else to deal with. I would say him and his advisors are doing much better than expected. But then I am not died red throughout and judge all politicians on their performance.

Less than two weeks ago it was all about achieving “herd immunity” until it was pointed out that it needs over 90% of the population to be immune (i.e. infected). Dropped that like a hot potato when scientists jumped on it. Dragged his heals over school closures and closing bars/restaurants until the pressure and criticism got too much. Saying one day we’ll be over the worst in three months, next day it’s going to take at least a year. Ducking questions as to whether he’d going to seek an Brexit extension when he obviously is.

Now I’m happy to admit I’m pleasantly surprised that he is taking action to keep the real economy going and unemployment down but he has to go further to protect self employed, casual and gig economy workers. No doubt he will when/if the pressure builds but currently he is not doing much different than any other country is.

Nobody knows when or how this is going to end and I’ll reserve judgement on his overall performance until it has.

This post has been edited by azul: 21 March 2020 - 11:32 PM

[azul]

isleaiw1, on 21 March 2020 - 08:31 PM, said:

No political pointscoring but would you want Corbyn and McDonnell having to refer back to the unions and the NEC, with probably an all party vote before they made a decision?

Boris said he had been with the TUC and the CBI in deciding what to do that was announced last night. They have had key people from retailers in to discuss food supplies.

We are all in it together. Except those who aren’t obvs...

PS Chris, just as I know you will appreciate it, all of our staff (from CEO down, including senior managers and everyone...) are under consultation for redundancy, lay-off, and short hours. No protection for anyone. Oh, and my private health care won’t help as all the hospitals have been handed over - rightly.

RE: your post script - they have been “handed over” for a price

This post has been edited by azul: 21 March 2020 - 11:33 PM

[fishini]

azul, on 21 March 2020 - 11:22 PM, said:

RE: your post script - they have been “handed over” for a price

For a price, nothing charitable. With the tax subsidies they receive they should have been given for free or taken.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

isleaiw1, on 21 March 2020 - 10:32 PM, said:

In a crisis, you go where you have control. In a war, you don’t hope people make the tanks, you commandeer places and get on with it.

In peacetime you probably get better decisionsif the market has more input - look at North Korea, look at how China’s wealth has multiplied since they adopted more free market approach.

There is room for both.

But I suspect we will never agree on this

We do agree Ian, but just not on the split.

I see a 'deal' has been agreed to free up capacity in the 'independent' sector this morning. Which I interpret as the government buying private beds and staff. Do we really think no one's making a few bob from that? So much for all in this together.

There's a great deal of talk of not politicising CV19, of saving questions and criticisms for another day. I don't agree. I think this is EXACTLY the time to be highlighting where underfunding public sector infrastructure has left us so we're far better prepared for the next crisis.

[60s 70s Spireite]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 22 March 2020 - 08:33 AM, said:

I see a 'deal' has been agreed to free up capacity in the 'independent' sector this morning. Which I interpret as the government buying private beds and staff. Do we really think no one's making a few bob from that? So much for all in this together.

This is what has been said about the cost.
The sector will be reimbursed at cost, meaning no profit will be made for doing so. “Open book” accounting and external auditors will verify the public funds being deployed,

[isleaiw1]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 22 March 2020 - 08:33 AM, said:

We do agree Ian, but just not on the split.

I see a 'deal' has been agreed to free up capacity in the 'independent' sector this morning. Which I interpret as the government buying private beds and staff. Do we really think no one's making a few bob from that? So much for all in this together.

There's a great deal of talk of not politicising CV19, of saving questions and criticisms for another day. I don't agree. I think this is EXACTLY the time to be highlighting where underfunding public sector infrastructure has left us so we're far better prepared for the next crisis.

Well as a minimum the private health care companies will want their costs paid, even if that gives zero margin. I wouldn’t say that was unreasonableas it’s the same deal we have offered for hotels.

Plenty of time to discuss the reasons / problems later - now it should be about keeping to message, reiterating the same points about how to behave to get it under control.

[isleaiw1]

azul, on 21 March 2020 - 11:19 PM, said:

Less than two weeks ago it was all about achieving “herd immunity” until it was pointed out that it needs over 90% of the population to be immune (i.e. infected). Dropped that like a hot potato when scientists jumped on it. Dragged his heals over school closures and closing bars/restaurants until the pressure and criticism got too much. Saying one day we’ll be over the worst in three months, next day it’s going to take at least a year. Ducking questions as to whether he’d going to seek an Brexit extension when he obviously is.

Now I’m happy to admit I’m pleasantly surprised that he is taking action to keep the real economy going and unemployment down but he has to go further to protect self employed, casual and gig economy workers. No doubt he will when/if the pressure builds but currently he is not doing much different than any other country is.

Nobody knows when or how this is going to end and I’ll reserve judgement on his overall performance until it has.

Do you think he knows the answers to everything. His main job is to tread a thin line between making the severity clear to the public and not creating panic.

As for Brexit, no idea who asked the question but they wanted shooting, completely totally irrelevant currently. He gave it the short shrift it deserved...

But would anyone want to be in his shoes now? Not me, it’s hard enough trying to sort one company and 1200 employees...

[fishini]

isleaiw1, on 22 March 2020 - 08:57 AM, said:

Well as a minimum the private health care companies will want their costs paid, even if that gives zero margin. I wouldn’t say that was unreasonableas it’s the same deal we have offered for hotels.

Plenty of time to discuss the reasons / problems later - now it should be about keeping to message, reiterating the same points about how to behave to get it under control.

Hotels don't receive tax payers money

[azul]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 21 March 2020 - 10:22 PM, said:

Perhaps there's a much wider discussion to be had about how the current crisis may re-define political thinking, Ian.

The free market ideology we've been heading towards over recent years could never deal with such a challenge. Which is probably why the likes of the 'Taxpayers Alliance' have gone so quiet. In fact the dog-eat-dog, law of the jungle, wild West style society they espouse - manifested in hoarders grabbing whatever they can whenever they can - is the exact opposite of the 'all in this together', community based approach even Johnson's now calling for.

What happened to accusations of a 'nanny state' when folk are told what's best for them? Where would we be without the tax funded infrastructure they've so often sought to dismantle? How could private ambulances and private hospitals and private medics demanding private insurance possibly meet a very public epidemic?

And I make no apology whatsoever for once more championing the army of supposedly overpaid and underworked public servants now performing heroics in the fight against CV19.

When Sunak stood up in Parliament to address the threat he didn't turn to the markets for help, to the City or hedgefund managers he used to call colleagues, he turned to public spending. Hopefully a lesson will be learned...

It is amazing when you look through that list of the essential workers, how many of them will be earning minimal or subsistance wages (probably some needing the help from the foodbanks that are currently running out of food). Meanwhile the likes of me who spent much of my life earning good salary (doing unessential work) are allowed to 'work' from home.

It would be nice to think we have learnt our lesson and things will be fairer, but once this is all done an dusted, do you think the lkes of Rabb, IDS, Patel, Javid, Gove, Mogg....(the list is endless) will rest

[azul]

isleaiw1, on 22 March 2020 - 09:01 AM, said:

Do you think he knows the answers to everything. His main job is to tread a thin line between making the severity clear to the public and not creating panic.

As for Brexit, no idea who asked the question but they wanted shooting, completely totally irrelevant currently. He gave it the short shrift it deserved...

But would anyone want to be in his shoes now? Not me, it’s hard enough trying to sort one company and 1200 employees...

Not sure what put the wind up him?

He soon dropped the "follow the science" stuff (well the 1% that agreed with his expert). Was that because he is a popularist and didn’t fancy being out on a limb or the fact they observed the mortality rate in this country is climbing faster than it did in Italy in the early stages of their outbreak (as reported in his own media).

As for beng in his shoes - it is what he schemed for most of his political life

This post has been edited by azul: 22 March 2020 - 11:58 AM

[Siberian Spireite]

isleaiw1, on 21 March 2020 - 08:21 PM, said:

Well they seem to have solved the problem by paying 80% of everyone’s wages when they are at home due to threat to their jobs. And most of the essential services are paying staff for the full 14 day isolation period.

By the way, apparently 30% of teachers were off last week. We had 1% of our staff claiming covid was reason for their absence. All staff are temp checked on arrival so we can tell if they are coming in ill.

Isn’t there an incubation period in which a carrier wouldn’t have a high temperature? Were that not the case, things would be much simpler.

I work for a firm which was doing well in the travel industry. We are now taking almost no bookings, have had to refund those who booked, taking measures where we can and doing everything to stop all the cash leaving the business. On Friday our Chief Exec announced that all of the few hundred employees will be on half time, half pay for three months. This seems to have been met with universal support, including from me. It had to be done, and personally, I can weather it. I don’t yet know if the measures Sunak announced will change the picture.

We have been boxed up waiting to move house for weeks whilst the feckless solicitors have sat on their hands and not exchanged contracts. If lockdown happens, the removal firms may be told to stop. I wonder if I’ll be able to do it myself, bit by bit, if the army are not out blocking the roads of Belper?